While the Cranick family does have insurance for their home, anyone unfortunate enough to have ever lost everything in a fire will tell you that donations are greatly appreciated. If you feel inclined to send money to the Cranicks, the info is below.
Gene or Mildred Paulette Cranick
Special Account
c/o Heritage Bank
PO Box 1410
Fulton, KY 42041
Donate online via Paypal using recipient e-mail address: CranickFireFund@yahoo.com
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Online petition: Tell Obion County Sheriff Danny Jowers It’s Not OK to Let Animals Burn to Death
The International Association of Firefighters has condemned (pdf) the failure of the firefighters to act at the Cranick family fire. HSUS has issued a statement on the fire as well, specifically mentioning the 4 pets who were allowed to burn to death.
I’ve been seeing a lot of coverage on this atrocity – I will add, however, that I wonder if the Cranik’s ‘forgot’ to pay their $75 (they didn’t forget to pay their insurance) – NOT that it in any way justifies what that so-called fire department DID – but there are two issues here – the worse being the firemen who refused to respond and allowed those animals to burn horribly to death and the second on the part of the homeowner, who neither paid the fire department charge nor obviously had a good fire policy in place (how were those animals left behind?).
I probably won’t be popular saying that, and I reiterate, it in NO way exonerates in any way the disgusting actions of the firefighters – but some responsiblity lies in the hands of the homeowners too –
Have you never forgotten to pay one bill but remembered to pay others? It’s great if you haven’t, but many people have (I have).
I once paid a medical bill a full year late. Oops.
Selkie,
To me, the Cranick case is a “bottom line” scenario. Let’s say (and I’m fabricating this out of whole cloth) Mr. Cranick outright refused to pay the $75 fee. Say he picketed the firehouse every day for 6 months with a sign that said “I’m not giving you whores $75!” He is a multi-millionaire but just didn’t want to write a $75 check to the fire dept to subscribe to their services.
Even IF that had been the case, I would feel the same about this story: The bottom line is that we don’t let the homes & pets of our fellow Americans burn down when we have the means to do something about it.
There will always be people in society who legitimately forget to pay their taxes as well as those who don’t pay out of greed. We may feel more forgiving of the former but that doesn’t mean we’d let the latter’s house/pets go up in flames. That’s why we call it ‘civilized society’. We take care of each other – the haves, the have nots, the will nots, and the forgots.
This is how I feel about it.
Especially, since there were pets trapped inside the trailer. No matter what the family did or didn’t do, their pets did not deserve to burn to death while a fully equipped fire squad stood by and let it happen.
Neandertals cared for one another. Surely we, who have so much more, can do the same.
selkie, If you go to YesBiscuit’s original posting on this, you will see you are not alone. This is no different than if he’d “forgotten” to pay his insurance and then expected them to pay a claim incurred while his policy was lapsed. Cranick bears the vast majority of the responsibility in how this played out IMO. A part of being a “civilized” society is holding people accountable for their actions and not digging all of society into a financial hole because of the irresponsible Cranick types who want someone else to pick up their slack.
Helping people often saves money in the long run. Each of us don’t live in a vacuum. This family is probably better able to be productive members of society if they have a house.
While the fire fighters stood there allowing a small fire grow large, it could have caught something else on fire. Like the forest. Which would have cost state or federal tax dollars to fight. To pick up the fire-fighter’s slack. Which is one reason that responding in an emergency situation is NOT the same as paying an insurance claim after the fact.
Last year I forgot to pay for my vehicle registration. We had a lot going on and it completely slipped my mind, even though the envelope is sitting in plain sight on my desk. I then received a ticket for not having current registration, which started a cascade of circumstances that I will not bore you with. Needless to say, I paid my registration this year on the day it arrived. I’m willing to give Mr. Cranick the benefit of the doubt on this.
Sorry, PJ, it is entirely different from an insurance premium, because insurance provides for reimbursement, not a service.
This policy was entirely unconscionable, in my opinion.
The fire should have been put out, and then the fire department could have had any number of options which would have left them, as well off, if not better off, than if the Crannicks had paid the $75 on time. For example, they could have been granted a lien against the property for cost of service provided. They could have had a monetary claim against the Crannicks (instead of or in addition to a lien) for the cost of the service provided. They could have required, in addition, that in future the Crannicks would have to pay a higher premium.
Just think – they could have an actual LAWYER prepare legal forms which the property owner would have to sign binding them to these terms, even at the scene of the fire.
Having sparred with you on other blogs, where you have specifically argued that licensed professionals such as vets and attorneys should not expect to be paid for their services, your coldblooded stance in this matter is incredibly inconsistent.
“insurance provides for reimbursement, not a service”
That is bizarre and fantastical thinking. Insurance is a service and only 1 part of that service is reimbursement. But, since you don’t like that analogy, how about utilities like water where a deposit or pre-payment is required. Ditto, don’t pay, no service, no product.
“Just think – they could have an actual LAWYER prepare legal forms which the property owner would have to sign binding them to these terms, even at the scene of the fire.”
Well, the concept of the fire department having a lawyer tag along to negotiate such an agreement in SECONDS is just way beyond fantastical thinking!
“The fire should have been put out, and then the fire department could…”
I’m quite sure you could guess what they could or couldn’t do in the brief time available and what would or wouldn’t be legally binding ever so much better than I so I’ll leave you to it.
“where you have specifically argued that licensed professionals such as vets and attorneys should not expect to be paid for their services”
I double dog dare you to produce one single citation example of that.
http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2009/july/biting-hand-brings-veterinary-care-bad-economy
Have you actually read that thread? It certainly doesn’t say what you’re claiming I said! (Of course, I knew it wouldn’t.)
“since you don’t like that analogy, how about utilities like water where a deposit or pre-payment is required. Ditto, don’t pay, no service, no product.”
Most utility companies will in fact give you extra time to pay your bill. If you are a few days late, they don’t magically shut off the power or stop water. They will notify you of the missed payment and request a payment, sometimes requiring extra money to cover costs. Some will even assist if you cannot afford to pay the bill.
It’s not like you are a day late and bam! all your power is shut off all willy-nilly. Nor is it like if you offer to cover the bill plus any extra costs that the utility company says, aw shucks, sorry but too bad, so sad…they happily take your money.
I don’t think it is an apt comparison.
Nor does is your house destroyed and your family killed when your utilities get turned off.
I have gas in my house right now that is on, and was turned on, before they received my deposit.
How late was his payment? A few days? or months?
“Nor does is your house destroyed…”
If you’re in a rural area, loss of water service could very well mean you house is destroyed and that’s whether the water is a public service or a well that has broken or frozen over.
“it’s illegal for gas or electric companies to cut off service… during the heating season”
I’m familiar, water is often included in those laws and it includes excessive heat seasons too. I also know what happens on the day it becomes legal – out go the cut off notices and terminations are PROMPT and most places do NOT require services to be restored if the weather becomes hazardous again.
Who cares how late his payment was – he and his neighbor both offered to pay THOUSANDS of dollars, up front, right then and there, no questions asked. It’s like if PG&E shows up at my door and says, hey, you’re two months late on your payment…do you want to pay the bill plus interest or have your power shut off? If I pay them right then and there, power stays on. If the fire department had just accepted the money, no dead pets/persons or destroyed house.
A fire is a pretty immediate threat. Losing power is a less immediate threat – as in you have more than, say, five to ten minutes to SURVIVE. Ample enough time to go to a neighbor, call the power company and figure out payment options. You don’t really have that option when a fire is killing you and your family.
“if PG&E shows up at my door and says, hey, you’re two months late on your payment…do you want to pay the bill plus interest or have your power shut off? If I pay them right then and there, power stays on.”
In Houston, the company that turns off power is usually not the same company that bills us. They do not knock on your door and can NOT take a payment if you catch them before the turn off.
At our farm in Missouri, they turn it off at the poll and run like bats out of h***.
“A fire is a pretty immediate threat. Losing power is a less immediate threat”
Not so much on a rural property with its own well which needs electricity to run – you know, so you can have water to put out fires…
” – as in you have more than, say, five to ten minutes to SURVIVE. Ample enough time to go to a neighbor, call the power company and figure out payment options. You don’t really have that option when a fire is killing you and your family.”
Then you MIGHT want to prioritize paying for the fire department service fee, huh?
PJ, I’m not sure what to say to you anymore. You want to argue a lot. You seem to honestly believe those pets deserved to die and so does anyone else unlucky to be stuck in a burning house with an unpaid $75 fee. If that is how you really believe people should treat each other, fine, we’ve got no similar ground to stand on. If you’re just arguing for the sake of it, but believe people don’t deserve to die from smoke inhalation – fire fee be darned – great, I’m with you. That’s the bottom line for me – yours may very well be different, more power to you.
You asked for your cite, there you have one. I am not going to further hijack this space for an argument with you on a side issue.
But, since you don’t like that analogy, how about utilities like water where a deposit or pre-payment is required. Ditto, don’t pay, no service, no product.
I’m sure you’ll be shocked to learn that in the northeast, where it gets cold enough to kill in the winter, it’s illegal for gas or electric companies to cut off service to elderly, disabled, or low-income customers during the heating season–whether or not they get paid. They have a variety of options for collecting their money during the warmer months, but they can’t cut off service when doing so will place lives at risk.
We also have no communities where fire protection is an “optional extra.”
When the powers that be determine how much each of us is going to pay in taxes for various services – firefighting in this example – they consider the costs of fighting a fire, the fact that very few of those paying the tax will ever use the service, and the fact that some people will not pay for various reasons. They come up with a figure that will allow them to cover the costs of maintaining a working fire station so they can put out fires when called upon.
The So Fulton fire department should have – and perhaps did – figure their subscription service fee in exactly the same way. Most subscribers will never use the service, not everyone will subscribe, and we need to have enough money to keep the firehouse in good working order to be ready to act when called.
Instead, the So Fulton FD’s position seems to be that in order to maintain a quality firehouse, we need $75 from anyone willing/able to subscribe. We know that most (or possibly all) of these folks will not use our service in any given year. However, we can’t afford to put out the fire at a non-subscriber’s home because that would put us over budget so we’ll just have to stand there and watch as their pets and home burn.
It makes no sense. Especially when you consider that the So Fulton FD is already funded by the taxpayers of So Fulton. The subscriber service they offer to Obion Co is simply an extra. Sure they need to get paid for this extra service but they can’t apply a different logic in determining the fee than they do for the city. After all, they (I’m assuming) do not call the city tax department to see who is in arrears on their taxes when a So Fulton resident calls in for service.
Providing the service to anyone who needs it is part of the deal. Because it’s a matter of no less than life and death.
Seems more likely they know that fewer people, maybe none, would pay if they knew the services would be provided without payment. As to the City residents, that IS a tax and enforceable so very different from a voluntary fee.
It really boils down to the fact that this fire department is offering a service they don’t have to provide at all, period. What they offer is a costly “extra” (do I really need to explain fixed overhead versus variable costs?). The fire department is trying to do a good thing but they could simply say “well, screw it, we’ll just stay within the City limits after this” and they could hardly be blamed IMO. Then the people in the unincorporated areas will be without fire department services altogether; no fees and their houses can all burn.
It all makes a great deal of sense even if the outcome was a poor one. Perhaps the county residents will suck it up an pass a tax to cover these services next year but I doubt it.
It may have been seen that way in the 19th century, but fire fighting is no longer considered an ‘extra’. I think that’s the whole point that you’re missing.
Again: people who have a house tend to be more productive members of society. Ignoring all the other reasons to do so, it pays in the long run to save it.
As for ‘costly’: apparently, residents of Obion county could have fire services for 13 cents per year per household. The report is linked to here: http://dickmacalive.blogspot.com/2010/10/obion-county-tennessee-firefighting.html
“fire services for 13 cents per year per household”
And they’ve apparently decided not to fund that.
“fire fighting is no longer considered an ‘extra’. I think that’s the whole point that you’re missing.”
Um, did you miss the part where Obion County has decided it IS an “extra” by making it a fee service instead of taxing and funding it – despite what you think?
The point you are missing is that fire fighting and other emergency services are still, in the 21st century, an unaffordable luxury in many rural communities. Simply declaring how you think the world should run, what you think is an “extra” and what isn’t does not make it so.