John Sibley brought it to my attention this afternoon that the ASPCA was engaging in an HSUS style “rescue” of 41 dogs from a shelter here in SC. From the ASPCA blog:
This morning we arrived at A Second Chance Animal Shelter (ASCAS) in Manning, South Carolina. After meeting with the staff, we carefully secured 41 dogs in our transport vehicle and set off on our journey to give these homeless pups a second chance.
Call to Action
The plan actually began a few months ago when the ASPCA Animal Relocation Team was asked to assist ASCAS. The organization was desperate to transport a few of their long-term shelter residents to other areas of the country where they would have a better chance at adoption.ASCAS’ office manager told us these were great dogs, but some had been at the shelter for years. In Manning, the supply of dogs far exceeds the demand—there just aren’t enough homes for them all.
John points out that ASPCA is transporting these dogs to shelters who needlessly kill pets for space. Gee, this doesn’t sound like the kind of “help” any caring shelter staff would want for dogs they’ve taken care of for years. I reached out to A Second Chance Animal Shelter for comment regarding the transport. This was the reply I received, in its entirety:
Shirley,
Thank you for your concern, however we have checked out all the shelters that have pulled from us and we are pleased with what we have done. We are a low to no kill shelter and only euthanize if the animal is severely ill and we can not treat or if an animal is aggressive. We take pride in what we are able to accomplish each year; however due to the fact that we are low to no kill people are less likely to adopt or pull from our shelter. Everyone thinks why adopt from them when they can save from a kill shelter. We also signed a contract with each shelter stating that our dogs are not to be euthanized, except for the reasons that we a low to no kill shelter do; and that is severe aggression and severe health issues. All of the dogs that we sent were healthy and SAFER tested before they left. We know that they will not be euthanized.
Thank you,
Amanda Childs
A Second Chance Animal Shelter
5079 Alex Harvin Highway
Manning, SC 29102
(803) 473-7075 Office
(803) 473-7503 Fax
http://www.ascasmanningsc.doodlekit.com
Designer Dogs Are Mutts In Disguise!“You must give some time to your fellow men. Even if it’s a little thing, do something for others – something for which you get no pay but the privilege of doing it.”
-Albert Schweitzer (1875 – 1965)To Donate to A Second Chance
Animal Shelter, go to:
https://www.justgive.org/nonprofits/donate.jsp?ein=57-1075206Confidentiality Notice
This message is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately either by phone (803-473-7075) or reply to this e-mail and delete all copies of this message.
“Low to no kill”? Is that the sheltering version of a little bit pregnant? At any rate, since the response indicated they had signed an agreement regarding their dogs not being killed by the shelters who kill for space, I asked a follow up question regarding that issue. Specifically, I mentioned that if a shelter kills for space and agrees to accept X number of dogs from out of state, the logical assumption is that X number of dogs already living at the shelter will be killed to make space for the incoming dogs. This is the reply I received, in its entirety:
From: “A Second Chance Animal Shelter”
Date: Tue, November 15, 2011 1:43 pm
To: eiderdown@yesbiscuit.comPlease read the confidentiality notice, I do not wish to correspond any further with you. Good-bye.
A Second Chance Animal Shelter
5079 Alex Harvin Highway
Manning, SC 29102
(803) 473-7075 Office
(803) 473-7503 Fax
http://www.ascasmanningsc.doodlekit.com
Designer Dogs Are Mutts In Disguise!
“You must give some time to your fellow men. Even if it’s a little thing, do something for others – something for which you get no pay but the privilege of doing it.”
-Albert Schweitzer (1875 – 1965)To Donate to A Second Chance
Animal Shelter, go to:
https://www.justgive.org/nonprofits/donate.jsp?ein=57-1075206
Confidentiality Notice
This message is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately either by phone (803-473-7075) or reply to this e-mail and delete all copies of this message.
Oh dear. Is it something I said?
John has the destinations for the SC dogs:
Capital Area Humane Society, Hilliard, OH (no reports posted since June 2008)
Bay Area Humane Society, Green Bay, WI (32% kill rate in 2010)
Animal Humane Society, Golden Valley, MN (33% kill rate in 2009)
Anyone in the neighborhood of any of these 3 places?
I am not near any shelter, but I spotted this in the FAQ section of the Capital Area Humane Society. These are excerpts only, the FAQ section has more information than what I’ve parked here.
Is the Capital Area Humane Society a “no-kill” shelter?
Beginning September 1, 2009 we will be a managed admission shelter. That means we will only accept animals for whom we can provide the highest quality of care.
The most difficult task that our staff has at the Humane Society is to put animals to sleep. If an animal is admitted to us and due to medical or behavioral problems is unsafe for adoption, we humanely euthanize the animals.
Yeah, I noticed that too. But it’s written in a future tense and the last posted report is from June 2008. So I have no idea if their intention to become a limited admission shelter in September 2009 ever came to be or what the results have been or what the current status is.
This sounds very similar to the tale of The Alabama 44. And can someone tell me why an animal shelter uses a legal disclaimer similar to one used by law firms? What the heck? The second response says it all. You’ve exceeded invisible boundaries set for you, Shirley. Yet another instance of The Alphabet Soup of Rescue spending who knows how much money to just make matters worse – no doubt hoping to make themselves look good – whey they should all be working on the systemic issues we all know about.
Challenge to the Alphabet Soup: put your millions to some good and quit dancing on the hearts and checkbooks of the animal-loving American public. Please.
I’m also amazed by that ‘Confidentiality Notice,’ and the speed with which communication was shut down. My foil beanie antennae are quivering – just what does the ASPCA’s contract for such operations as this require?
My sister is in Hilliard,OH
They signed an agreement. Yeah, that’ll keep your dogs alive.
If they were really keen on moving these dogs, they’d take pains to MARKET THEM. But no, they ship them out to God knows where to unknown fates because…why? They’re out of ideas?
They’ve had some of these dogs for YEARS. That’s unconscionable. Give them skills- TEACH them things. Make them marketable. This is Brisby! Isn’t he gorgeous? Brisby can sit up, fetch, and roll over! He walks very nicely on a leash and knows “hush” to stop barking. He’s been here so very long, he’s hoping for a home of his own. Special note – Brisby can also “shake hands”, but because he was taught by a lefthanded volunteer, Brisby is a lefty! So if you know of someone looking for a lefthanded heart-stealer, send them Brisby’s way! And remember – when you adopt a dog from us, you open up a space here to save another life – so save TWO by adopting ONE!
i actually work at Animal Humane Society (not the Golden Valley location, but same organization). I think our dogs from the ASPCA are arriving today.
I don’t know where it came up that we euthanize for space, but we don’t and haven’t needed to do so for a long, long time.
In fact- over the last 1.5 years we’ve made some big changes and our euthanasia rate is even lower than 2009- we’re hoping to get to a 90% live release rate within the next year or so (i don’t have the actual rate because we recently changed fiscal years to a July-June- 2010 was split into two ‘years’).
Right now the average length of stay for an adult dog is 10-12 days. And adult cat just 7 days. Last year the LOS for an adult cat was 40 days. So i definitely like the direction we’re going :)
We tend to take a fair amount of dogs from out of state- we won’t say no to a shelter asking for help, and we have the space to accept them.
let me know if you have any more questions. or if i can’t answer them i can point you to our Public Affairs Manager who has access to all the info :-)
If you could get the stats for 2010 (I don’t care how it’s termed as far as fiscal year or whatever), that would be great. Also, can you (or anyone there) explain the apparent discrepancy in figures as noted here: http://johnsibley.com/2011/11/15/aspca-saves-dogs-by-transporting-them-to-kill-shelters/#comment-318
i don’t have the new stats yet unfortunately due to the year change over, but when they’re compiled they’ll be in our annual report on our website (although the Public Affairs Manager may have a prelim report or more info. I don’t get a printed report early or anything)
i would be happy to clarify Mike’s mistake
you can see our stats from 2009 on our website, but here’s what they say
Intake 33164
Placement (Adoption, Return to Owner, transfer) 18877
Euthanasia 14006 (10855 in shelter, 3151 owner requests)
14006 + 18877 = 32883
about 1% remained in our care at the end of the year
So basically Mike forgot to include the owner requested euthanasia in his calculations- no missing animals from our stats like he says- which i’m confused as to how he could possibly make a mistake like that considering he then included a link to the actual stats. I mean- to me that’s either a huge mistake (which i doubt he’d make, since he watches our activities and reports like a hawk) or it’s deliberate misinformation.
Does that help/is that what you were looking for?
You’d think I’d be used to looking at shelter reports and all the tricks they use to make their numbers appear better than what they are but I guess I’m just too gullible. When I see the big number at the top of the page next to “humane euthanasia”, I interpret that to be the total number. Obviously AHS does what many shelters do (my own local shelter does the same thing) with their stats so that the big numbers look better than the real numbers and then when somebody falls victim to their numbers games they say “Silly you, it’s all right there in our 50 page report with a gazillion pie charts – didn’t you see it?”. I really hate that. Transparency is key.
As of the latest available stats, AHS appears to kill for space, and their kill rate is actually higher than what I posted. Since no other stats are available, I guess we’ll have to leave it at that for now.
i’m confused by what you mean by the stats showing AHS kills for space- can you please elaborate?
i mean- i consider killing for space being we literally do not have any more cages to house animals- we’re so full that in order to fit the new animals coming in we have to kill some of the old ones so we can use their cage. Do you have some other sort of definition? I’m truly curious as i’m just confused about the whole thing
I know you and i have disagreed in the past as to whether or not euthanasia requests should be counted or not (or whether there should be a waiting period and all that jazz) so we’ll probably just have to leave it at that :)
http://www.animalarkshelter.org/animal/ArkArticles.nsf/AllArticles/65791CA159ADC7408625794A00687A83?OpenDocument
Don’t send animals to high kill shelters and expect them to survive. Contracts are completely useless-You can’t bring an animal back from the dead.
can i ask- what would you consider a ‘high kill’ shelter? what percentages are the crossing point from high kill, to low kill, to no kill?
I’m genuinely curious
I would like to know that info too. Would high kill be anything over the national average which I think is about 50%? Thanks!
What I should have said was: Don’t send animals to KILL shelters. A contract can’t save an animal once their transfer hands. Some animal shelters sign a contract and kill anyways..by then it’s too late for the animal(s).
well that’s fine
but i’m still curious about the answer if anyone else has insight
Anne said, “So basically Mike forgot to include the owner requested euthanasia in his calculations”.
No. Actually, AHS forgot to include those deaths in their “euthanasia” numbers. While AHS claims to follow the Asilomar Accords methodology for reporting statistics, they continually fail to do so.
Including owner requested euthanasia in euthanasia statistics is important for several reasons. Most importantly, many owners request “euthanasia” for animals that are not terminally ill. For example, a breeder that breeds black labs may bring in a litter of puppies that have white spots on their chests. Since this cosmetic issue can cause a breeder’s line to be questioned, they may want the puppies killed.
There are many other reasons “owners” may request “euthanasia” for healthy animals. If a shelter is really committed to saving savable animals, they will not comply with these unreasonable requests… and that brings up another interesting point…
The Minnesota Veterinary Practices Act prohibits shelters from selling veterinary services. Euthanasia is a veterinary service.
An owner may “request” euthanasia… but the shelter does not have to comply. If, in fact, AHS is selling “euthanasia” as a service, they are breaking State law.
Understanding the breakdown of Owner Requested Euthanasia is important. These animals should not be systematically scrubbed from their statistics. And, really? More than 3,000 animals? Really?
It seems like an investigation may be required in order to determine whether or not AHS is breaking yet another state law.
AHS will not perform euthansia requests for arbitrary reasons like you quoted.
So you would rather AHS stop offering the low cost euthanasia service for the public? And when owners can’t afford to have their pet euthanized at their vet, what is their option then?
And AHS isn’t breaking the MN Vet Practice Act because the owner signs ownership over to the shelter prior to the euthanasia- which allows vet services to be legally performed.
Now your statement about not HAVING to perform the euthanasia is 100% true. But the owner has signed a contract for the euthanasia and is expecting us to comply with their wishes. To do otherwise at that point i feel is ethically and morally reprehensible.
IMHO, whether or not it’s unethical to fail to comply depends on why the owner requested euthanasia.
If the pet is suffering from an untreatable and unmanageable condition and the person cannot afford the local vets’ fees for it, then obviously it would be unethical – a failure to comply under these conditions would cruelly extend the pet’s suffering.
Otherwise, though – if the pet is healthy or has wholly treatable or manageable conditions – then I think it would be unethical to comply.
Or to put it another way, the pet’s welfare should trump the request.
i 100% agree
and i can say with complete certainty (as i have helped many, many owners with these requests over the years) that the VAST majority of these owners are making a difficult but loving decision to end their pet’s life, and that it’s a good (‘right’?) decision and i am comfortable helping them with that request
I think we can all agree that the evil public does not exist- this includes for euthanasia requests as well. Yes a few people make horrible, callous decisions, but they are the exception and not the rule.
Anne, you missed my point entirely… or maybe even a couple of them. First, if they surrender a pet under “contract” for euthanasia, AHS is breaking the law. The Mn Vet Practices act prohibits you from selling euthanasia services (or any other other vet services).
If they are surrendering a pet, and REQUESTING euthanasia, that is different. A request is not the same thing as a contracted, required euthanasia.
Furthermore, the scenario I mentioned is a specific case that I know of, so don’t pretend you don’t “euthanize” at owner request for animals that are not terminal. I KNOW otherwise. In either event, if the animals are all terminal, they should still be recorded in your statistics as euthanasia, and then they should be classified as unhealthy/untreatable.
At minimum, AHS is playing with their statistics. At worst, they are breaking the law by performing a veterinary service for a fee, in violation of MN state law.
the ‘contract’ is still a transfer of ownership with the understanding that the animal be euthanized. Once the animal legally belongs to AHS the euthanasia can proceed.
And again- if you feel AHS is breaking the law offering a low-cost euthansia service and should stop, what is your alternative for the thousands of people that take advantage of this service every year? Since Animal Ark doesn’t provide this service i’m sure you DO find it hard to understand how many people take advantage of low cost services when they are available
I’m not personally familiar with the situation you’re talking about (i do, however, have personal experiences from over the years of when we turned down a euthanasia request).
Can you tell me- was this situation from before or after 2007 when AHS, HSCA, and GWMHS merged?
If it’s from pre-merger then you’re not comparing apples to apples as AHS was a completely different organization then
And once again- those euthanasia numbers were recorded in our statistics- i’m looking at them on the website that you linked to right now
One other question: If AHS is only “euthanizing” at an owners “request” when the animals are terminal… that would imply the animals have seen a vet a been diagnosed with a terminal condition. If so, why are the animals not being euthanized by the diagnosing vet?
If AHS is examining and diagnosing for clients prior to surrender, you are REALLY breaking the law (per the MN Vet Practices Act).
Really. I just cannot make sense of the AHS claims. They don’t fit with MN law… and seem contrary to common sense. And regardless, all “euthanasia” should be counted as, well, euthanasia…
Anne, can you please answer? Does AHS require veterinary diagnosis prior to agreeing to “euthanize” at the “request” of an owner? If so, why do thousands of people have you end the life of their terminal pets, rather than having the diagnosing vet do it?
I think as more and more people start demanding less killing in our shelters we will see more shuffling of pets — hoping to look good without doing the hard work of really increasing adoptions.
Is it common for people to be less likely to adopt from a no-kill shelter or rescue? When I look for a pet, I try to find the right fit for my household. Seems like people who invest time in understanding shelters would understand that adopting a pet from a no-kill would allow that shelter to save another one. Just wondering if that seems odd to anyone else.
It seems odd to me, too. Most people I know prefer to go to no-kill shelters or private rescues. But I’ve no actual statistics to back it up.
I had a WONDERFUL adopter choose not to adopt from me because my dogs were *too happy* here…she didn’t want to stress them by taking them away! (The hard cases, the shy, the neurotic, they do have a hard time transitioning, but, um, here I sit with a host of hard cases!) And yes, I’ve heard lots of people say they’d rather adopt a dog from Animal Control because those dogs are more at risk. (I’ve actually sent a lot of shoppers that direction…)
I am some what near the Hilliard shelter – do we have a list of what dogs have been sent there? I don’t know if I can run over there or not… What can I do to help at this point?
I am about 40 minutes from CAHS in Hilliard, The last info I had showed a claim of 85% placement rate for dogs and a 30% placement rate for cats. They do not take in ferals and their pit bull program is very limitied
Anne,
You seem to be contradicting yourself. First you say AHS will not perform euthansia requests for arbitrary reasons, then you say “But the owner has signed a contract for the euthanasia and is expecting us to comply with their wishes. To do otherwise at that point I feel is ethically and morally reprehensible.” So which is it? What if the owner is requesting AHS to euthanize their pet for arbitrary reasons? How can you NOT perform the euthanasia while still complying with the owner’s wishes? You can’t have it both ways.
Of course, Theresa, you are right. And, more than 3,000 owner requested “euthanasias” per year? Really? Even if all of that were true (which I am sure it is not) they should still count as euthanasias… and reported as such.
i’m sorry- i wasn’t clear and i can understand your confusion. We don’t accept pets for euthanasia for arbitrary reasons- so it would never get to that point where they owner has signed a contract to have the pet euthanized.
For example- if an owner comes in and wants to have their healthy pet euthanized because they’re moving and can’t stand the thought of their pet living with someone else, we would have a conversation/counseling with that owner about why we can’t honor that request and other options available to them.
So those situations don’t make it to the point where we are ‘contractually obligated’ to comply with their request.
Does that make sense?
The example i gave is a true one- the pittie (named Bubbles- they originally told us it was Playboy because they were embarassed to admit his real name) with our assistance was able to stay in his home with a family that dearly loved him.
One other question: If AHS is only “euthanizing” at an owners “request” when the animals are terminal… that would imply the animals have seen a vet a been diagnosed with a terminal condition. If so, why are the animals not being euthanized by the diagnosing vet?
If AHS is examining and diagnosing for clients prior to surrender, you are REALLY breaking the law (per the MN Vet Practices Act).
Really. I just cannot make sense of the AHS claims. They don’t fit with MN law… and seem contrary to common sense. And regardless, all “euthanasia” should be counted as, well, euthanasia…
Anne, can you please answer? Does AHS require veterinary diagnosis prior to agreeing to “euthanize” at the “request” of an owner? If so, why do thousands of people have you end the life of their terminal pets, rather than having the diagnosing vet do it?
Once the owners legally signs their pets over to be euthanized, it becomes the property of AHS, so why wouldn’t it be counted in their euthanasia numbers? If the pet is truly at the end of its life, then the euthanasia should be included with all the other euthanasias, being classified as “unhealthy, untreatable” like Mike suggested. Why would they be separated out from all the others, unless it is to manipulate the numbers, since 10,000 sounds better than 13,000. I always feel sorry for the pets that are brought to AHS to be “euthanized” because their owners are not allowed to be with them at the end of their lives, but I suppose that is because they don’t belong to the owners anymore. It’s sad that they have to die in a strange place with people they have never met. I really don’t think that is much of a service.
Wow dense. Why doesn’t the diagnosing vet euthanize? Because say your short on cash spend the last few dollars you have at the vet and he tells you your cat has cancer. You take the cat home in shock to think about what to do. You can’t afford treatment. Eventually quality of life decreases and you can’t afford the $300 vet fee to euthanize (yep in BC it cost me $300 to euthanize my dying cat) so the vet or a friend tells you the humain society will do it for you. So you take him there.
As for laws selling vet procedures I know shelters that do shots and spays too. The shots for my cat was done by a staff member as I watched, they also removed her stiches. The other vetting my vet vollenteers at the SPCA to offer such low cost services to people. Instead of pointing your finger and claiming their breaking the law do something about it. Go turn in every shelter and SPCA in North America cause they all do it. But then most have vets they work with and are allowed to offer such services because of that. Seems like you’re just bullying because if there was really a law being broken hopefully you would be doing more than just talking.
The ASPCA did the same thing in Tallahassee, where it recently signed one of its “partnership” agreements with the Tallahassee shelter. The Tallahassee shelter then sent 81 dogs to the very high-kill Broward shelter in Fort Lauderdale at the instigation of the ASPCA. I predict that sometime soon ASPCA will issue a press release bragging that it lowered the kill rate in Tallahassee, even though 81 Broward dogs were killed to make room for the Tallahassee dogs.
Lisa in OH – where did you see the stats you reference for Capital Area Humane? I have never seen intake numbers published, just the monthly adoption numbers & the enormous # of volunteer hours logged. Here in Columbus, Capital Area is known as a limited admission shelter.
I am also in Columbus & available to help in whatever way possible.
Alice those stats were given at a volunteer orientation at CAHS
Hilliard, OH, importing dogs from down south?
Really?
I don’t have experience with that shelter, but I can guaranfreakintee ya that there are *legions* of really dandy dogs being killed at pounds within a one-hour radius of this shelter.
I know because I go out to pull from those pounds for breed rescue, and feel like a goddamned monster as I drive away, even with a vehicle jammed with dogs. Because the ones I’m not taking, not my breed, not the ones that I can place through my system, are so damned nice. So easy to place through a well-run local shelter.
But they don’t come with a tit-for-tat from ASPCA, I guess.
Anne wrote: “I’m not personally familiar with the situation you’re talking about (i do, however, have personal experiences from over the years of when we turned down a euthanasia request).
Can you tell me- was this situation from before or after 2007 when AHS, HSCA, and GWMHS merged?
If it’s from pre-merger then you’re not comparing apples to apples as AHS was a completely different organization then
And once again- those euthanasia numbers were recorded in our statistics- i’m looking at them on the website that you linked to right now”
Anne, I now believe you are being deliberately misleading, for several reasons. The entire reason we have having this discussion is because AHS lists as the number of animals “euthanized” 10,855. That number is somewhere between 3,200 and 4,200 animals short of the actual number. The “other” euthanasia may be buried in the data somewhere. If so, that is the exact complaint we are making. If you are reporting the number “euthanized” you should include all of the “euthanasia”.
People should not have to dig through the details to figure out that you are not reporting all of the deaths in the big numbers.
Suggesting destroying animals at the owner’s request is a policy that came “after the merger” is also grossly misleading. The original AHS in Golden Valley has engaged in this sort of activity for as long as I can remember (decades). So did the Humane Society for Companion Animals, the two main organizations that merged. Additionally, your current CEO/President was CEO of HSCA, that had the same policy in place. So, you are, again, being very misleading.
And, all of that is irrelevant. I know of animals that were “euthanized at owners request” at AHS that were not terminal, had never seen a vet, and they were killed within the last couple of weeks.
If you want to go through the list, lets start with Bixby. Killed in Golden Valley a few weeks ago. Owner says he was “starting to get stiff in his back end” and beginning to have “emotional outbursts”. Owner also says that Bixby never saw a vet. Sounds like simple beginning arthritis to me. A few bottles of FlexPet would likely have done the trick. But, we will never know, because Bixby is dead, without ever having seen a vet…
Anne’s response regarding Bixby?…. (*crickets*)
Kind of boring without Memphis Shelter webcams, eh?
Kind of insensitive to imply that the abuses at Memphis Animal Services are some kind of entertainment, Sarah.
Enabling makes you evil.
I’ll attempt an answer to Mike’s question about owner requested euthanasias. I’ve no idea how or why they do it where Anne is, but here in Fairbanks, Alaska, we get as many as three thousand owner-requested killing at our municipal animal control over the course of the year. The service is offered for free. They used to let you stay with your animal, but they don’t any more. Or, maybe they do if you’re not me. Or maybe they do on Tuesdays, or only before 4 p.m. or some other *new* rule that I never find out about until it is too late.
My vet and sponsor euthanizes my dogs for free and I sometimes bury the body here at home, but most often take the remains to Animal Control to be cremated (for free, but if SHE takes the body in, they charge her by the pound for disposal.) I trust Animal Control with a dead body.
Other vets in town charge between $120 – $350 to euthanize a dog, depending on size and which clinic you go to. Some clinics make a donation to the nonprofit of your choice (from a list they have compiled.) Some offer crematory services as part of this fee.
I know many people who cannot afford $300 for a dead dog. I know many people who cannot afford $48 (office call) for a vet to tell them their dog needs to die, and they also don’t have the negotiating skills to pay just the $48 for the diagnosis and not the $150 for the death.
I’ve had animal control do medical exams on my dog(s) when I took them in for euthanasia. It felt a little bit creepy, but they did agree with me that the dog (14 years) was old and feeble, had fluid in her lungs, had trouble moving, and really was ready to cross over the rainbow bridge.
They also examined the foster dog that I took in to be killed because it had a screw loose and couldn’t be trusted and it had killed all my chickens, put holes in several other of my dogs, and notched the ear on my cow too. This dog needed a VERY saavy owner, preferably one without livestock or other pets. I was unable to continue fostering the animal. My vet recommended euthanasia rather than returning it to the no-kill facility where it would have escaped and continued to injure other creatures and create additional vet bills for everybody. Animal Control took my word for it on the dog’s temperament. I didn’t bring them a note from my vet.
When my vet was the manager of the shelter she actually talked several people out of requesting euthanasia for their animal. She found fosters or adopters to rehab the pets! But talking people OUT of using these free services is not on the current agenda for Animal Control staff…at least I don’t think it is. They do request a donation, and I think a lot of people do donate. I don’t. It is a public service. I spend a lot of time and money helping animals to live, I don’t feel like I should donate for their death.
Another Jon Katz fan heard from.
I have no idea who John Katz is, but I agree with some of what was said here. It was what I was thinking while reading through the previous comments. Example: Our very beloved dog was diagnosed with diabetes. Of course, I know that diabetes can be treated with insulin. However, the vet that diagnosed him, while willing to treat him, advised me that due to his size (90 lbs) and age (8 years), it would be very difficult and expensive and he had little success with dogs that size/age. At the time, I was unemployed and my husband had just gone back to work after several months of unemployment. We obviously couldn’t afford to treat him (and personally didn’t want to put him through the shots, blood tests every day). Since he wasn’t suffering (yet) we decided to do our best to control his blood sugar through diet/exercise. I spent hours upon hours researching the web, talking with vets and “animal experts” to create a plan for him. A few weeks later he couldn’t keep any food down. Not even water or pedialyte. We sought the advice of another vet and ended up leaving him with the vet for euthanazia. Worst day of our lives. We knew when we took him in that day that he wasn’t coming home with us. It killed me to write a check to the vet to kill my dog. Should I have used that money (that I didn’t really have in the first place) to try to save him?! Had I known of a “free” public service offered by my local shelter (I don’t know if my local shelter offers this or not), I probably would have used it. We were flat out broke. And broken hearted. And like Anne said, what exactly WOULD have those people do?! Take them out back and shoot them?
I looked up Jon Katz. Never heard of him before, but I guess maybe I could become a fan. I don’t understand the meaning behind your comment…could you explain further please?
Mike Fry, I know that local vets here have a gripe with Animal Control. I know that very few vets here will spay or neuter for cheap, and that Animal Control makes the adoption fee the cost of the spay or neuter at the vet office of the adopter’s choice rather than try to squeeze another $86 out of the adopter after the vet clinic charges them $250 to spay their shelter dog.
We do have a low cost spay/neuter program, and it has helped. It has been supported by national grant money and some vets will participate if we use grant money to pay them their full fee. But when the grant money runs out, there are only one or two vets that will play for cheap.
One vet bought a crematory and installed it in her clinic across the street from Animal Control. Then she sued the borough for competing with local business! She got the state board of vets to halt Animal Control’s ability to euthanize unless a licensed vet was present. She’s the one who complained that relinquishers should not be allowed to be present when the borough employee euthanized an animal. (She makes money by holding the hearts and souls of loving owners hostage.)
Nobody is perfect. None of us live forever. But I’m dang proud that MY vet invested in an underwater treadmill, cold laser therapy, and other rehab services to help injured and aging animals live more comfortably. (Instead of a furnace to get rid of dead bodies in order to better capitalize on unavoidable death.)
I know that shelter staff often have trouble distinguishing breeds (heck, the no-kill shelter I used to volunteer for refused to call ANY dog a pit bull because she had such trouble placing them…she had an amazing number of lab/boxer crosses.)
But do we really want Animal Control arguing with the public about if or when their pet should die?
If this place you’re talking about is killing 10,000 animals in ADDITION to the 3,000 owner-requested, I venture they’re killing puppies and kittens that need foster homes, and probably a bunch of happy, cute and fuzzy pets of all sizes shapes and colors.
Maybe we could find a home for that aged arthritic dog. But I’d like to work harder towards building a bigger network and safety net so that fewer of those 10,000 animals die before we work to cherry pick from the 3,000.
Part of being a responsible pet owner is making this life and death decision…I’d rather we didn’t waste our energy backtracking.
p.s. If the owners relinquishes the dog for euthanasia, (at least here anyway) the borough becomes the legal owner of the animal and can then choose to kill or not kill, no matter the request. Of course, same goes the other way, you can request adoption, but they have the legal right to kill and you —and me, and anybody else—has absolutely NO recourse. CAPA in Alaska anybody?!
Make sure you leave her a message and let her know her confidential emails are all over the internetz.
Anne Says:
November 15, 2011 at 8:16 pm
i’m confused by what you mean by the stats showing AHS kills for space- can you please elaborate?
i mean- i consider killing for space being we literally do not have any more cages to house animals- we’re so full that in order to fit the new animals coming in we have to kill some of the old ones so we can use their cage. Do you have some other sort of definition? I’m truly curious as i’m just confused about the whole thing
I know you and i have disagreed in the past as to whether or not euthanasia requests should be counted or not (or whether there should be a waiting period and all that jazz) so we’ll probably just have to leave it at that :)
_______________________________
To clarify: AHS kills thousands of healthy/treatable pets a year according to the most recent published stats. AHS may have space to house those animals but they are killed nonetheless.
I do not advocate for any waiting period for euthanasia. That would be cruel. I advocate for a brief, compassionate veterinary consultation such as any owner would receive who goes to any emergency clinic or other place where the vet being asked to perform the euthanasia does not already know the pet’s medical history. Euthanasia being defined by me as putting a medically hopeless pet to sleep in order to end suffering.
You idiots who are sitting on your butts at home with nothing better to do than berate organizations who are doing their best to give UNWANTED, ABANDONED, ABUSED animals a better way of life ought to be ashamed of yourselves. You’ve got tunnel vision and are incapable of focusing your tiny minds on anything but one very small part of a very unmanageable problem. Thousands of UNspayed and UNneutered dogs are making more UNspayed and UNneutered dogs every minute because of the irresponsibility of their OWNERS–NOT the shelters and rescued who are trying to HELP. How is your stupid, judgmental blog helping them? How many dogs rescued dogs to you have? Or are yours purchased from breeders? When was the last time you volunteered at a shelter or rescue and got poop splattered on you from an enthusiastic dog? WHO gives YOU the right to JUDGE others who every MINUTE of the day are at least trying to find homes for these poor babies? As for kill rates, you really need to take a trip to rural SC and spend a month or two (not a day), seeing and physically working with starving, abandoned mommas, daddys and their next two or three generations dead or dying on the side of the roads. You should work at a shelter in SC and have to deal with the PARVO, scabies, distemper, coccidia and parasites because of irresponsible pet owners. Then there are the thousands of pitbulls and other “bully breeds” who are being bred for the sport by lazy people who haven’t got enough smarts to get real jobs. You should have to answer the phone at a low to no kill shelter and get cussed out because your shelter is full and working from a waiting list. Join the real world that shelters and rescues have to live in every day, not the synthetic one you have created with this blog.
I’m trying to reconcile
“WHO gives YOU the right to JUDGE others”
with
“lazy people who haven’t got enough smarts to get real jobs”
and coming up short.
Uh, the subject here is who is really out there dealing with the problem (no kill, low kill, kinds of dogs & why there is a problem) and who is sitting at the computer picking the comments apart.
Thanks for letting me know, anonymous guest. Since you are a new anonymous guest here, let me bring you up to speed. Nobody here sits at their computers anymore than you do. We are an online community of people actively engaged in saving pets’ lives. Most of us here want to save more. And each of us, in our various ways, are working toward that effort.
New here?
Hahaha. I have 5 dogs. One is a former fighting pit that I taught to live socially with other dogs. One is a mutt from the streets of Brooklyn. One is a puppy mill mom. One is a 15 year old pit bull with lymphoma that I adopted in June for hospice care. And one is a 12 year old pit bull who lived in a concrete hole for his entire life since the age of 10 weeks until I pulled him 2 weeks ago. He has major orthopedic issues.
I foster, adopt, donate, train. I work extensively with behaviorally challenged dogs in sanctuary situations – some of my dog friends have done some very bad things, and I help them to trust humans again. Sometimes I get bit. Mostly I try not to. I have worked for low and no kill shelters as a dog caregiver and as a manager. I regularly come home splattered in bodily fluids – I’m usually there three days a week as a volunteer, and nothing makes me happier. I’ve answered a lot of phones.
And I loathe the ASPCA for sucking resources away from organizations that can provide actual help.
This is my real world. I am not an anomaly here. On this blog, I am the norm.
I agree with matilda. The issue first starts with the over amount of strays in sc. I mean there really is no animal laws and the few there are, are not being held down all so tight. It really bothers me to see people talk soo much crap about a shelter. They are a SHELTER! They are trying to save animals that have no where to go! No one to love or care for them. To feed and water them. To make sure they have a shelter over their head during the bad weather. You should most def. not start talking about a shelter you know nothing about. Why dont you come down to that shelter. meet the staff. the animals that they have had for years and . see how much they care for there animals. really just go to any shelter in sc and see. if they have had these dogs for years why would they just through them out to be killed .if they wanted them dead wouldnt they just do it them selves?? It doesnt make sense, none of this makes sense to me. And to talk about all this euth. I mean really?? wow!
I really hate to ban people but Matilda/Tiera – you are banned. You can not come on someone’s blog talking smack with one fake name and then pretend to be someone else w/another fake name in order to agree with said smack. It’s frowned upon in general and specifically here, it raises my suspicions about your shelter.
wow. Matilda Dogwalker. really? wow? I am someone who sits on their butt for 8-9 hrs for a paid job that I’m thrilled to have. but SRSLY? amazing that you feel the need to blast a network of people trying to help. Sorry no I wasn’t on the ground in Memphis to help Mari. but I did give my last couple of bucks to the chipin. THATs what this network of online people can do to help.
POOP? Parvo? Rescuing? I can’t speak for anyone else but you apparently think that you can. So I’m a random reader of the blog. I’ve rescued random strays. I’ve fostered dogs. I’ve come home after 9 hrs of SITTING on my butt in front of a computer to see that my blind/deaf foster dog has had diarrhea all over my living room. Despite my attempt to create an oversized expen lined with weewee pads, blankets and sheets…that lovely pup has backed up to the expen walls to decorate the rest of my living room leaving her space dry and clean. GOOD PUPPY. Perhaps I do have TUNNEL vision because I continue to rescue in the special needs dogs that are deemed unhealthy and untreatable in shelters. Maybe I enabled the breeder whom I bought my second dog from…Just because I bought a dog from a breeder does not make that dog any better or worse than my other two rescued dogs. Perhaps I am a dumb MINION who continues to troll for homes even after housing a foster dog for two years. I don’t FORCE people adopt my dogs but I do educate them and try to match them up with other dogs. I’ve gone to shelters with them to help them pick out an appropriate dog for their lifestyle. I’ve found others the perfect purebred puppy AT shelters and steered them away from unscrupulous breeders.
so that’s a little about me. feel free to blast away at me. but not globally across the comments for people trying to help.
mcappy – Matilda/Tiera is outta here. It’s a shame when people of differing opinions can’t have a meaningful dialogue on the issues.
You don’t owe anyone any explanations. Thank you for helping the challenging cases that most people would be unable or unwilling to take on. And thanks for contributing to the ChipIn!
Darn IP address, messin’ with my sockpuppet.
It’s sad Heather b/c she’s still commenting, claiming she doesn’t know the “other person”. Damn, at least go to the library or something.
The state of Ohio presently considers pitbulls vicious animals. There is Ohio House Bill 14 which would eliminate this. It has passed the house and is presently in the Senate Committee. This is why most Ohio shelters do not allow the adoption of pitbulls.
I still don’t understand why a shelter would keep a dog for so long. If you have a dog that isn’t being adopted over a period of time, step it up! Market that dog aggressively. Do something to make that dog more marketable (training, grooming, taking an all black dog and painting her toenails bright pearl pink so someone looks twice at her, etc.). Find that dog’s home – it’s out there, you just need to connect.
Shipping dogs off to other shelters like this is like throwing up your hands and saying, “Yep, we’re beaten. No idea what to do next.”
Wouldn’t it be better to talk to rescue groups out of your area, see if they can find a home and then work to get that dog transported to that group? At least then you know that the dog is going to a foster or a home, not a shelter where…let’s be honest, anything could happen to him.
How many of these 41 will develop “issues” that “require” them being killed within a month of their arrival at the new shelters?
It’s a good question, especially when the “issues” are apparently wide-ranging and secret.
I am sure most of the long term sheltered dogs have kennel stress and unless the new shelter is able to deal with it, I assume that many of these dogs will be killed.
Mikken, I respect and admire you (based on years of reading your comments!) But I’ve got a host of dogs that I’ve had for YEARS.
Some have been adopted, but have come back. (I offer a lifetime take-back promise on any animal.)
When I first got into this rescue thing I had a hairless husky pointer cross dog named Kelly. My nickname for her was boomerang. She was adopted/tried more than seven times over the six years I had her. Finally, at age ten, I took her to Animal Control. She was old, she got cold in the winter, the insulated dog house wasn’t really enough.
I’d taken her out to train with a team of sled dogs and I’d had to load her in the basket of my sled. I had to MAKE myself get angry at her in order to have the fortitude to take her to Animal Control. When I got there, they asked if I wanted to have her euthanized or put up for adoption.
I told them she’d been adopted several times, but that she always came back. The tender suggested that I sign her over to be killed. She said (patented AC drivel) *If you sign her over for adoption, we’ll have to keep her for three days, it’s loud and smelly here, she’s old, we have dozens of younger/easier/better dogs available. We’re just going to kill her, why not let us do it NOW instead of in three days?* She then asked if I wanted to stay with her while they killed her. I ran like hell. It was a life-changing moment in my life.
I had that dog for six years, and all I can remember is that day of death. I try REALLY hard not to repeat the same mistakes in my life.
I guess I’m not taking Fleckerl to Animal Control. She’s only five. And she’s only been adopted twice. P.S. She’s living in the insulated dog house that wasn’t good enough for Kelly.
Lynn,
I’m not speaking for mikken but there is a difference between someone doing rescue out of their home (like you do) and a group with a physical shelter which solicits donations from the public indicating it’s their mission to protect the homeless pets in their county. You are a kind-hearted individual doing what you can from your home. The other group has actually hung out a shingle saying “We’re a shelter, this is our job”. When you make the leap from doing what you do to doing what they do, there is a responsibility to step up your game.
Absolutely. The “shelters” that put a dog in a cage 24/7 and leave them there for years are guilty of animal cruelty. They say they’re “saving lives”, but what they’re doing is unconscionable. To not aggressively market a dog, to not aggressively work with a dog who may have “issues” that are preventing adoption, to not try to foster a dog so it has some sense of what a real home life is like is wrong. You don’t get to stuff a dog in a cage and leave it there for YEARS and then plead “but he’s hard to adopt, he’s got food aggression/no leash manners/an ugly face/whatever”.
But LynnO, you’re not a shelter, your a rescuer/fosterer. Your dogs aren’t stuffed in cages left to their own devices in a noisy, scary, overwhelming shelter environment that can turn a sane dog nuts in short order. Your dogs live and interact with you and other dogs in a normal fashion. This is a very good thing.
That said, tell me…what can we do to help you in your quest? You’re not in the most populated of areas, so maybe a wider marketing of your rescues is needed? Do you have a website to highlight them? Can we start a chipin to get one going? Or a good camera so you can post photos/videos or your available dogs? No Kill is a community goal and we’re part of your (virtual) community. Tell us what we can do to help.
Hey YesBiscuit,
I actually fostered a dog from this shelter through the Bay Area Humane Society. Her name was Sweetie, now it is Scout. She came to my home with ZERO confidence and no home skills at all. She lived the first year of her life in a kennel down in SC. And let me tell you, if it were not for my inlaws Sweetie would be dead today. She is just over a year old and already has hip displaysia and that was going to be there reason to put her down. Thankfully my Inlaws stepped in and said they would take her in. Today she is a completely different dog. She is happy, has loads of confidence and is really showing no signs of problems with her hips. I have been suspect of the place they came from down in SC from the moment I heard about the setup between my local shelter and A Second Chance. Of all the dogs that we got, one had was good for adoption right away. All the others needed pretty intensive fostering before they were able to be adopted. And one is still in foster care becaues he has had to have multiple surgeries to correct torn ligiments in his back knees. Thank you for bringing light to this situation. While none of the dogs that came to Green Bay were put down, one came very close.