There’s an old adage about freedom that you’ve probably heard phrased various ways by different people but I’m grabbing a quote attributed to author Neil Gaiman:
“Because if you don’t stand up for the stuff you don’t like, when they come for the stuff you do like, you’ve already lost.”
The point being that the legal right to freedom has to apply to everyone across the board, not just to you, your family, and others who agree with you. Otherwise, it’s a pointless concept. Enough said.
Last week, Cleveland Co AC in NC took 23 surrendered dogs from an owner who breeds dogs. There were no violations at the time AC visited the property and convinced the owner to surrender some of the dogs. Just as there were no violations when AC visited the property last year with big guns in tow:
“They had 60 animals,” [Sam Lockridge, with the Cleveland Co Health Department] said. “They supplement their income by raising pups. We had the Department of Agriculture and the Humane Society with us. There were no cruelty violations.”
During last year’s visit, during which no violations were found, “Lockridge said the owner was made aware of legislation before the N.C. Legislature, House Bill 930.” The bill lays out requirements for facilities keeping more than 10 intact female dogs.
At the visit last week, AC again brought up the bill, which has still not been enacted into law:
On Thursday, officers reminded the owner about the proposed legislation.
“We told them if the legislation passes, they would be in violation,” he said.
After being visited by badge flashers for the second time in a year, and being reminded that although they weren’t being accused of any legal violations now, if a proposed bill passed and became state law they would be in violation of that new law, the owners decided to turn over 23 of their dogs to the officers.
How is this not harassment by authorities at least and abuse of power at worst?
I have no knowledge of the situation at this property and if circumstances warranted, I would be fully supportive of an effort by private citizens to offer assistance to the owners. But sending in the cavalry – not once but twice – when the ace up their sleeve is the threat of a proposed bill? That is wrong. And while some animal welfare advocates may be inclined to shrug off what I consider to be an abuse of power by local authorities since you know, evil dog breeders blah blah, I refer you to the beginning of this post. And I further remind you of what the “rescued” dogs faced upon impound at this gassing facility:
Who are the bad guys again?
(Thanks Dot for sending me links on this story.)
To make matters worse. They only hold animals for 72 hours max and they are gassed. They use choke poles on chi’s and hold animals by the scruff of the neck to take photos. The ACO has absolutely no compassion for the animals in his care. Its truly sickening. I feel for those terrified abused animals.
I looked at all the pictures of these dogs as they were being un-loaded from the trucks and some had the faces and names of the ACO’s.. I could see in their faces.. they just didn’t care… And they knew they would be taking in the animals.. because the day before they cleaned house and murdered so many animals.. These pictures haunt me…
Those photos say enough!
EXACTLY PICTURES SPEAK A THOUSAND WORDS ! GUILTY
NC bill 930 was the hsus bill that they pushed and that eventually dies ( I think( but that did not stop the HSUS from suing it to seize great danes and eventually pushing a man to the brink to kill himself and his son.. HSUS and a newly formed “Great Dane Rescue Alliance” took the dogs and ruined the family.. a damn shame they get away with this crap..
http://www.wilsontimes.com/News/Feature/Story/Police–Man-killed-son–self
I hope everyone who reads this post will share this information. I wonder what goes on in the meetings in the office of the HSUS state director – I imagine something like this:
Director: OK, we have Bill 123 all ready to go, and Congressmans A, B and C will soon sign on as sponsors (see receipt for campaign donations in my desk) and Senators D,E,and F have also signed on with more to come (see another pile of receipts, also for the caterer for the “humane award” dinner and the plaques). Now we need to find examples of why this bill is so desperately needed. Go on, Troops, go get ’em! We need breeders, small ones, home based ones. The USDA kennels, don’t bother with.
EVERYONE, write to your lawmakers about the horrors of dog breeding, and complain bitterly about how ‘weak” our laws are, and how Bill 123 will ‘save the puppies’. Show them photos, by all means, if you can.
Write a letter to the editor of XYZ newspaper, and make sure they have an on-line edition.
Minion: Ooh ooh, my cousin just – gasp – BOUGHT a basset puppy last month from a ‘sputter, spit’ breeder, I’ll find out where.
Director: Good, pretend to want a puppy just like your cousin’s, and tell the breeder that you want to know your puppy came from a ‘nice’ place, so demand to see the kennel. Ask to use the bathroom, get a look in the house, record with your cell phone if you see any clutter. Get a feel for their financial situation. If they don’t have an attorney’s name next to their phone, all the better. Snoop as much as you can. Get all their information, full names, address. Then leave the rest to us, we’ll make a plan. We’ll check tax records, get our LE buddies to find out if they have any money, trust funds, any traffic tickets. . .
Minion 2: I’ll use my telephoto lens and go around back at dawn to shoot pics of the kennel before they get up and feed the dogs and clean for the day. Feces, urine, no food, the horrors! With the long lens I can avoid setting the dogs to barking and still get good shots.
Director: Great! Now all we need is a few more volunteers to do the same with this list I have hear, names we got from the kennel club’s breeder referral list, and some from the classifieds, and we are well on our way.
Does any of this strike a chord with anyone?
do you think they would admit if it did??
@bestuvall – funny, just crickets.
Maybe this is a little too close for comfort. Just imagine the frustration of the folks who targeted these chihuahua owners when they couldn’t find any violations, not once, but twice. All that time spent, and nothing. So they threatened and intimidated the people, who have probably seen what has happened to others, and felt powerless. Badges and uniforms, imagine how frightened you would be.
That is almost the scenario I had to put up with!!!! My dog was accused of biting a lady in our neighborhood, of course there were no witnesses to the “crime”. Long story short, she wound up dead and thrown in the bushes beside our house, and to this day, (this happened July 1, 2012) there have been no arrests for the animal abuse. Another one of our dogs was with her when this all happened, and after the Cleveland County Animal Control declared him a “dangerous” dog because he was barking at the lady and impounded him for 10 days, he was “exiled” from the state of North Carolina, or face PTS. The Cleveland County Animal Control came to our house with two trucks and three police cars to “check pout” our dogs living conditions!!!!! Our dogs each have their own 3’x6′ kennel with soft beds and blankets in each. They are housed in our heated and air conditioned garage, and are fed premium dog food including canned food as a supplement. They live better than a lot of Cleveland County residents do………But really….two Cleveland County Animal Control trucks and THREE squad cars with three ARMED policeman to check out our dogs “living conditions”??????? We moved out of North Carolina along with our dogs!!!!! Abuse all the way around, I’d say……here is the link to Hannah’s (our dog that was killed) story…….you decide….https://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-for-Hannah/353211508104267
I am soo sorry for your loss. I live in Caswell County and am sorry to say I did not hear about this story. Hannah is so beautiful and It caught me off guard when I read Hannah is a Grandmother. I share many animals posted on FB that are at the Shelby shelter.
..So do they get kickbacks based on how many animals they impound, or what? Or did they just count on Chis being popular enough to be a profitable acquisition for them?
it is not profitable. And rescue groups do not pay one penny to take the animals, so in fact this did not make the Animal Control service one cent. Animals are adopted out 60 dollars which includes a rabies vaccine or 100 which includes spay or neuter.
Cleveland Co. does not charge rescues for pulling dogs? Are you sure? Many ACs do.
And, um, cough, choke, rabies shots and the hadful of food a chi eats in three days max doesn’t come to $60.
Per the Cleveland Co website, 501 (c)3 rescues have to go through an application process and if approved, can pull animals for the following fees: $10 fee for rabies (required) $15 per day housing
See the full document: http://clevelandcounty.com/cchd/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Rescue-Requirements.pdf
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 12:35 PM, YesBiscuit!
they sell all of these animals. through”rescue” they have a new “coordinator’ who they are proud to say has taken over 300 animals she has posted on her page that theses people are a “classic puppy mill”
in their stats animals that leave the shelter are animals saved. but all they doing is taking the numbers of the real rescuers, rescue groups have to adopt from them, but most time and expense is done by the charitable rescuers. I foster animals with medical and behavior situations.the municipal shelter will euthanize. but rescue groups wont.
a lot of these poor animals end up in rescue groups, the municipal shelters do very little for the so call breeders, terrorising animals that rescue groups will have to fix back to be adopted. by the public. they need to train ACO ‘s to treat animals and breeders alike with more compassion, not all situations are the same.
The pictures are indeed awful and those dogs don’t look like they’ve been abused or neglected by anyone but the people at the other end of those catchpoles. Catchpoles for chihuahuas? Really? Why are these dogs any worse off with their breeder than they are with a rescue? In both situations they are likely being put in new homes. This is just a terrible abuse of power; a special abuse of power in which the government uses the threat of harm to someone’s pets. That’s a pretty strong threat, and in this case it worked. It happens in many cases each and every year all over the country. Just awful.
Reblogged this on Sherlockian's Blog.
I have to comment here to the person who feels the animals are worse off in rescue: Our rescue was able to save two of those poor souls, so I will speak to my OWN personal experience with this case. These two dogs are in TERRIBLE shape. One is heartworm positive, both have horrific skin conditions and in terrible shape with bad teeth and nails as long as I have ever seen (and I have seen quite a bit).
The puppies do get sold and find new homes (‘adopted’ as a previous poster said – not exactly my definition, but I won’t dispute that here), but those dogs that myself and others rescued were useful to their ‘owners’ for NOTHING other than breeding. The ‘owner’ didn’t give one shit about the condition of those animals or what happens to them – as long as they keep pumping out free money for some lazy POS to profit from innocent animals!
I paid nothing to CCAC to pull these dogs, and will happily show you my receipts for nearly $300 in vet bills on the day I picked them up. That is not counting the spay surgeries, the dental work, the skin conditions, nor the heartworm treatment yet to come. I have seen firsthand the condition these animals were in, and the suffering they must have endured to be in the shape they are in.
I can’t speak to what they said to the ‘owner’ to get him to give up the 23 he did, but he is probably a lucky man that I wasn’t there. I might be in prison right now if I had. I won’t get into whether his ‘rights’ were violated or not, I am simply addressing one person’s comments. His rights would have certainly been violated by me, had I been there to see the atrocities!
Please know of what you speak before you open your mouth and say something completely stupid…
Thank you for taking in the two that you did! Just wanted you to know that there are people who do appreciate you.
Well said
Obviously, there are many folks posting here that have no clue what animal rescues do, & don’t realize the horrific conditions that puppy mill dogs are forced to live in. I don’t agree w/ catch poles for small dogs, but you do have to use caution when handling traumatized, unsocialized animals. And that is not worse than having to live the remainder of your life in a wire hutch in squalor. I wish the blogger (who should have the guts to post their name) had showed the photos of the coated dogs,1 of which we groomed that was matted, filthy, flea ridden, had few teeth, had heart murmur, etc. The vet couldn’t even venture a guess of age it was in such poor condition. This dog screamed bloody murder for a simple bath due to lack of any socialization & human kindness. During my 14 years as a groomer, I’ve handled numerous puppy mill dogs. Many freak out, urinate, defecate, try to bite, hyperventilate, etc. Many have debilitated hind legs & spines from being caged all their lives with no exercise. NC laws are antiquated, & although the blogger correctly stated that these folks didn’t break the law, people like me find it difficult to give a bloody hell about their rights b/c they are abusers, plain & simple. And for those of you who don’t care about animals, keep this in mind. Many BYBs take cash only, don’t report income, then eventually dump bred to death dogs at the shelter who are usually destroyed. Guess who suffers the repercussions of that? We tax paying folks. I pose a challenge to this blogger & any of you who posted in favor of this mill owners “rights”: Come to Dippity Dawg Pet Salon tomorrow morning at 10 AM to observe me grooming 2 more from this pack. I’ll even let you get your hands dirty if you like. I’m waiting with baited breath.
“people like me find it difficult to give a bloody hell about their rights b/c they are abusers, plain & simple.”
Any evidence to support the abuse claim?
You want a world where justice is meted out according to your personal preferences. That is not justice. We start teaching that to people at age 2.
I believe I just pointed out the evidence that I’ve seen first hand, & specifically with 1 we groomed this past Fri. from this mill. We start teaching reading comprehension, around age 5. Again, if you wish to see proof, come by my salon at 10 AM tomorrow, & I’ll show it to you. Otherwise, you’re just another person blathering about something you have no knowledge of.
Your anecdotal experience does not equal a violation of the law.
Gee, I’m really inclined to visit you.
You are happily ignorant of the fact that most here ate active in rescue, and would respond far better to the presentation of real evidence and information rather emoting your own anecdotal account of ypur own virtue.
If you don’t know the Deep Dark Secret of YesBiscuit’s real name, you have helicoptered in and done no reading other than skimming this post.
Shhhh – You know that shit is classified!
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 12:43 PM, YesBiscuit!
Bless your heart for taking in 2 of the neglected/abused animals, Catherine. Seems to me many are appalled by the catch poles. I agree they appear to be unnecessary but we don’t know enough about the situation to judge the AC officers that used them. I wasn’t there so I’ll not judge. Many don’t think about the other side of things. What if one of these dogs bit one of the AC officers. I’m almost certain the animal would have been PTS.
The behavior you describe is very likely more influenced by the emotional trauma of being seized by strangers, handled by strangers, being in terrifying new surroundings, unfamiliar smells and sounds. Not every frightened dog is “unsocialized”. You ascribe an awful lot of your own feelings to these dogs, and describe their behavior according to your preconceived ideas. Frankly, it’s what you WANT to see. You already used the word “traumatized” – but I am pretty sure you are thinking of their past experience, not the present. Let’s ask an experience dog breeder to describe the behavior of their clients, especially dogs who have never been to a groomer before (not that they haven’t been groomed). Not saying that these dogs aren’t emotionally stunted, I’m just saying that you can’t use your own anecdotes, colored by your personal hatred for dog breeders, to prove any point whatsoever.
I am fostering the Shih Tzu that Patti groomed. What living conditions would anyone say led to a dog that hides in back of huge travel crate, jumps back and cringes when you attempt to touch her, shivers uncontrollably while you pet her, is terrifed of being placed in grass to go potty and literally almost pooped on her tiny body when held in your arms from shear fright? In three days I have gotten her to progress into coming out of crate to eat IF and I strongly state IF no one is in room, French door to rest of house is closed and food is close enough to crate door that she only has to take a couple steps. When we attempt to carress her, rub her little head and ears there is NO, repeat NO reaction. She sits like little statue and looks at us in fear. Her skin is in terrible shape with hot spots all over. Patti’s shop did terrific job of cleaning out the matted feces from her hind quarters and tail. A dog doesn’t have matted feces in fur unless they LIVE in cage/crate with feces! I took 3 of these poor pups to vet. The odor in my car was overwhelming urine, poop and filth! I have never seen such horribly dirty dogs and all with few teeth and what they did have were very bad! I am a foster through C.A.R.E. in Cleveland County. I clean my crates AT LEAST twice a day OR every time they pee or poop! To not be in violation all that is required is food, water and shelter!!!! The food could be nothing but bread which makes them fat to look good to public officials who check on them but causes tooth loss, poor hair, skin and health. Three basic necessities only and your puppy mill has NO VIOLATIONS! Anyone want to visit my little Sugar? Sorry, she doesn’t accept visitors! She doesn’t accept any affection or love because she has been held hostage in a freaking puppy mill all her little life and doesn’t have a clue what it is! It terrifies her! A slight movement of your hand and she’s a bundle of quivering fur who has clearly been trained to NOT PULL AWAY OR ELSE! How about visiting one of these wonderful places to see for uninformed self the lovely living conditions? How about asking for one of the sweet trapped souls to hold and caress? NOT a puppy, but one of the matrons of their stock! You have the backbone or stomach for it or is bashing those who rescue these tortured beings all you have? How about this man’s mill? Can’t wait to read your blog when you actually know what you’re talking about for once! Tonight I’ll try again to show Sugar that the whole humankind is not a sack of crap!
Excuse me for a major misstatement in my previous reply – I meant to say “experienced dog GROOMER”, not breeder. A lot of dogs freak out at the groomers, scream, squirm and try to bite, even normally well behaved and socialized family pets. This is not proof of anything but a temperamental, feisty dog, maybe even, dare I say, spoiled rotten.
This poor dog has ONE tooth in her mouth and a grade 4 heart murmur that is now being treated by one of those rescues that you spoke of marylanddogfederation.
Does this look like the ‘owner’ should have been given the courtesy of asking him to do the right thing? How many of YOU would adopt this dog? All of the dogs from the puppy mill (not a breeder) but one are in rescue and getting treatment. The other will be safe tomorrow.
If people in NC cared as much about the animals as they do for their iPhones, we would have laws to protect the animals, and then ‘bullying’ wouldn’t have been necessary to get them out of the hell they were living in!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3349629517670&set=a.3283811032249.1073741832.1776815549&type=1&theater
I use my own name, since I am not afraid or ashamed to stand behind my comments…
Those dogs were in horrific condition and deserve better. They should have ALL been taken. No violations? Who is paying off whom? Call it a puppy mill, backyard breeder or hoarder, it’s wrong when the animals are neglected. I do not agree with using catch poles on Chi’s, or any dog. These dogs are not socialized at all and scared. Being out of a cage after 7 or 8 years can do that. They need rescues and foster homes to get them back to health and socialized enough to be adopted. NC laws regarding abuse and neglect of children and animals are ridiculous and extremely behind the times. Yes, I am a Jersey girl.
Why didn’t you use the picture of the dogs in much worse condition? That Chi was the best looking of them all. All of those animals are living in deplorable conditions and should have been seized and spread out through rescues and shelters across the country. The rescue coordinator has made as much of a difference as the county will allow. Instead of criticizing the shelter, look at the conditions the dogs were in and question the laws, or lack thereof, protecting them from a life of neglect and suffering.
The people saying there were no violations were the same authorities that seized the dogs. Did you miss that detail?
bastards, treat those so called human beings as they treat those poor dogs
These pictures make me sick. This place needs a complete shake down. They know nothing about handling animals. I never, ever, would treat an animal like this when I worked in the shelter. These morons need to be fired, at the very least.
TRY THIS DIRECTORY ON FACEBOOK OF ALL THE RESCUES IN THE U.S. AND EVEN IF A RESCUER IS IN ANOTHER STATE WE CAN SAVE THIS DOGS LIFE, HERE IS THE LINK ,
http://www.lacroixtees.com/fb_directory/animal-rescue/index.php
JUST COPY AND PASTE IT IN THE GOOGLE SEARCH BAR OR BROWSER, TRY BOTH, AND IT IS THE THIRD OR FOURTH ONE DOWN UNDER
“ANIMAL RESCUE FACEBOOK DIRECTORY- LACROIXTEES.COM”
AND START LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO SAVE THIS DOGS LIFE
PLEASE HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THIS DOG COULD BE KILLED AT ANY TIME, PLEASE HELP, IF NOT, THEN SHARE ON HERE FB OR ANYWHERE ELSE,OR EVEN IF YOU KNOW RELATIVES THAT LIVE IN THE SAME AREA OR FRIENDS, PLEASE HELP THIS DOG GET ADOPTED, SERIOULSY IT ONLY TAKES A CLICK TO DO SO , YOU NEVER KNOW WHO MIGHT WANT THIS DOG, DON’T LET THEIR LIFE END JUST BECAUSE ,
These dogs were all sent to rescue on Friday thanks to the shelter’s rescue coordinator. She opened the AC at 8am (instead of 2pm) to allow rescues to get these dogs out. There are plenty of other dogs there that need rescue if you actually want to help
It’s great they all got out to rescue.
Currently I am a bit occupied with my pug mix foster–blind, and when he arrived scary skinny and still laden with some of the parasites he’d acquired in his original home.
Oddly, the shelter he came from did not choke pole him, but instead neutered him, gave him a dental, fixed his umbilical hernia, and began clearing out the parasite load while calling around to find a rescue for this sweet boy who wouldn’t do well in the shelter environment.
They work hard to ensure they get rvery animal they can’t expect to adopt out gets into rescue, so that no dog dies their except for medical necessity.
I am not favorably impressed by Cleveland Co.’s choke poling a chi, and it doesn’t induce me to give them the benfit of the doubt on other things.
You ask who are the bad guys? There was an abuse of power which was wrong but still the breeder is still the bad guy. 60 dogs???? No one can tell me that all were in perfect health & condition & utd vet checked. Owner breeding to “supplement” their income”? No, more like income period !! Both were wrong!! Those not rescued went from 1 horrible situation to another !! Neither has compassion for the dogs, period. The dogs are being used by both. If the owner loved & cared about them they would sue.
Failure to bring a lawsuit means *nothing.* Lawsuits, no matter how justified, cost money, time and effort – and the cost can be substantial. Not everyone has the resources. Of those who do, not all of them can pull together all the hard evidence needed, especially if their record-keeping hasn’t been all that comprehensive or complete.
Excuse me but WTH are you blabbering about? I guess I should have continued to write “but we know owner won’t sue because they don’t give a damn about the dogs, only money. They can breed more to replace”. Geez
Way to miss the point. See that, up there? Failure to bring a lawsuit means nothing.
You may think it does. You may even have good reason to think it does. But there are many, many reasons people don’t sue, and unless you know for a *fact* that the reasons you’ve appended are valid, they’re merely hot air and insults.
The breeder allowed them to take 23 dogs; the others are still living in hell at the breeder, continuing to make the lazy POS money. If they had bullied him, as the post suggests, then they would have taken them all, don’t you think? They were able to get him to agree on the 23 they got out of there, but the others are still at the ‘owners’ house – still living in the same horrible conditions…
Why don’t you blog about that? Why was there no blog about CCAC when we were all begging for help to make things change? Well, things are finally changing because enough people made a lot of noise, and now there is a new rescue coordinator for the shelter, and she has been a miracle worker for the animals.
The rescue coordinator has done more to make a difference for the animals in that county in a very short time, and knowing her, she probably begged him (not bullied him) into giving up the ones he did. If I had to guess, she was probably crying the whole time. There is NOT a better person to help CCAC change their practices, and to criticize her specifically when you know nothing at all about her or the changes she has made is at best, irresponsible. They finally have someone who cares for animals at the shelter, and she will continue to do amazing things without the ‘help’ of people who criticize, but know nothing…
Catherine, You’ve made your opinion clear. Continued rehashing/rebashing is considered trolling which is not allowed here. One time warning.
Gotta love people that write about things they have NO knowledge about. The new rescue coordinator has done more for that shelter since she started in July than has been done there in years. Before you bash her, try to spend a day in her shoes. I have. I know what a difficult job she has and what she sees on a daily basis and the decisions she has to make. I don’t know many people that could handle what she does. I’ve also met many if the shelter workers and know them to be quite different than the careless, cruel people many describe them as. Unless you are doing something to directly help the shelter please keep your mouth shut. As my mother used to say ‘If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all!’
LOL your last sentence is hysterical.. re reasd the posts from people who support this .. “continuing to make the lazy POS money” could make a good start..
I’m delighted that these dogs have gone into rescue and applaud the efforts of the foster/rescue coordinator who got that going. However, I’m confused because the article said the Dept of Ag found no cruelty. Something doesn’t add up.
I hate BYB as much as the next guy – they pump out puppies, sell them to anyone who will pay the price and don’t give a #$% about the health and well-being of the dogs. A logical next step, then would be for the states to make some laws about this. Sorry to legitimate breeders who do all the right things, but the BYB are making it hard for you, too.
Make and enforce . . .
Hoping I am not violating anything by responding, I am simply trying to answer your question. NC breeder laws are almost non-existent, which is what needs to change more than anything. They can pretty much do whatever they want without fear of being out of compliance with the law. That is why there were no charges filed, the animals in NC have very few rights here…
If normal animal welfare laws were enforced, it would do a lot more good than attempting to regulste breecers specifically. And I keep coming back to the fact that the same AC that took these dogs says there were no violations.
And then they choke poled chis.
The darker brown chi under the catch pole was in my bathroom several hours later. I had taken it to the vet along with another one of the chi’s. The rescue paid the vet bills. It breaks my heart that these poor, sweet little dogs lived in deplorable conditions, in wire cages with wire bottoms with their feet never hitting the dirt for their whole life. How can anyone take up for a breeder who never showed compassion for these 60 animals or more. How can anyone in their right mind take up for this greedy breeder who treats creatures so inhumanely for “supplemental income” as he called it. These poor babies were terrified, neglected, but no longer. They are safe, loved and being treated in a way they deserve for their last few years or days on this earth. As far as the catch pole that was used for a few seconds does look bad, was not anywhere near as bad as what this breeder did to them. They were not hurt by the officers. At least the AC got them out of there. He still has 40 of them if that makes you happy. 40 who are living in hell, never been petted or loved but have so much love to give. I also, like Cathy, and others know this first hand but they will get love now and be able to give it back. They will get the medical attention they need, which they most likely never got before. All to make a fast buck!! Animals have rights too!!
no they do not.. animals do not have rights.. they are not “babies” they are dogs.. anthropomorphism makes for a good emotional story but animals are not people and really can’t anyone else come up with something other than “deplorable conditions” and “feet that have never touched .. whatever.. dirt, grass. etc.. as for the “greedy breeder” just another term that is tossed around when anyone dares to “sell an animal” .
Have you ever seen a puppy mill?
Animals do have rights – and those rights may not be legal, but they are moral rights that people who care about them respect.
All those on board the SS Evil Breeder: Way to miss the point of the post.
Oh and yay gassing facility chokepoling 8 pound dogs. Wheee!
Would you rather CCAC had simply reported them for animal abuse which would have imposed fines & perhaps jail time, rather than giving them the opportunity to relinquish some? And have you offered to adopt any?
LOL, I see we’re bringing out all the classics here.
I am not going to save all the pets in this (or any shelter). That’s up to locals.
Again, what abuse? Where is the evidence? AC made clear there was no violation.
As I said in the post, *if* (and I have no knowledge of the situation) the owner needed help reducing numbers or getting better care for the dogs, I have NO PROBLEM with private citizens offering assistance. Indeed, private citizens are often the ones who do the most good in any animal welfare situation. And they don’t abuse the animals on the way out or take them to a gassing facility either.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 11:26 AM, YesBiscuit!
As I’ve said, I’ve seen the evidence. And I am a local private citizen who tries to do my part. I’ve already met 4 of these dogs. I’m giving free grooms to any from this raid to help rescues save $ for vetting & rehabilitation. Believe me, it is hard work on dogs who are in such rough shape & are scared to death. In the past 6 mos., I’ve also adopted 1 from CCAC who needed femur surgery, & another from a local hoarder w/ a broken leg that will never properly heal. And since you’re not local, I recommend you do a blog about something in your own community that you are willing to step up & actually do some work for. Anyone can write about issues; it’s a rarer breed that actually tries to help.
[/cheap shot]
So what exactly is your point? Seems to me your intent was getting a rise out of people.
Let’s shuffle this around some and take it to its logical conclusion. If we’re not allowed to directly criticize a shelter unless we either volunteer or adopt from them or a shelter employee we don’t know personally, then I assume none of us are allowed to criticize any individual whom we have not met personally – no matter what job or office they hold – nor are we allowed to criticize companies unless we visit them personally, shop from them, and have vetted their supply chain – nor can we criticize public services unless we have worked for them, no matter how egregious the offense.
Which is absurd. Every one of us – I have absolutely no doubt that includes the very people insisting we not criticize this shelter – do all of this. Most of us every day, in one capacity or another. Good grief. It doesn’t take getting shit on your hands to know there are places shit shouldn’t be.
“none of us are allowed to criticize any individual whom we have not met personally”
Except for breeders, because they are all animal abusers. And if you need proof, just know that I personally have a bad dog who was apparently bred by someone although I don’t know whom. Or maybe some degenerate just allowed his female dog to roam and she had this bad puppy. Which brings me to the next group we must be allowed to condemn across the board – people who don’t spay/neuter. Of course it’s possible my bad dog came into this world some other way that I haven’t named here. So I think I must revise my list again to include ANYONE WHOM I CHOOSE ANYTIME FOR WHATEVER REASON. Is that reasonable? I think so.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 11:38 AM, YesBiscuit!
Yep.
My cat P’Gell was, as a community kitten before we adopted her, hit by a car in a trailer park. I say we shut the place down. And kill all the community cats, because, well, because.
My bottom line is what’s best for the animals? That includes backyard breeders, puppy/kitten mills, “shelters” and “rescues” and “legitimate” breeders. Call yourself what you will, say what you may, but what are you doing for the animals in your care?
Let’s start with a show of hands. Paws up if you don’t stuff the animals in your care into a gas chamber to die.
Cleveland Co AC? Bueller?
Bottom line here is the laws in NC. They are very lax as previously stated. Gassing needs to be outlawed, Puppy mills shut down etc. Obviously everyone that posts on this topic cares for the animals,but those directly involved; you come off as high and mighty. Ever think that you would draw more help with being nice and appreciative of any help to get the laws changed? Animals statewide are suffering and everyone should be screaming at the top of their lungs to the lawmakers to get things changed. Only you the residents of NC can get that done. Get to work.
12 paws up here …
Heck, I’ll take paws up if you don’t dangle terrified tiny dogs on chokepoles.
I don’t stuff animals into gas chambers to die. I also don’t chokepole tiny dogs. But then, I’m not an animal handling “professional”.
” Animals statewide are suffering and everyone should be screaming at the top of their lungs to the lawmakers to get things changed.” and the sky is falling too
Yep. Whatever happened to “enforce the law” that exists already? You can’t tell me that there aren’t any animal cruelty laws in North Carolina. But there is money to be made by creating a crisis, looking for examples to support the crisis, and then screaming ‘there oughta be a law!!” What if there IS a law, and someone isn’t enforcing it? Shouldn’t that be the place to start? Not in HSUS’s playbook, that one. Too much like common sense, and doesn’t bring in huge donations to a lobbying group.
If you have ever seen the shape most shelters in NC are you wouldn’t say that. Good luck to your narrow minded thinking.
Is your sarcasm directed at me, chelbelle64? Have you seen shelters anywhere else, that allows you to impeach opinions and experience of people from other areas? If you believe that NC alone has the ‘worst of the worst’, well I have this bridge . . . I suspect you have fallen for the broken record rhetoric from HSUS, who has turned this into a sick and perverse competition. The worst laws, the worst shelters, the worst breeders, the worst owners, state by state, until they eliminate first, breeding, then pets entirely – doesn’t that make you angry? I promise you that NC is not the ‘worst’, I can think of a few other areas that are close competition. But the Blame Game is just like the “which state has the worst” game – results in bickering and finger pointing, and wastes energy, time and money that could be much better spent joining together to protect the freedoms we still have to enjoy our choice of pets. Please re-read Shirley’s original post.
Yes it was directed at you and Alice. I have no doubt that NC is not the worst but it is one of them. No I do not fall for the HSUS rhetoric since I do not support them in any way at all. Until Wayne Pacelle can give up a portion of his 6 figure salary and they can spend more than 1 cent of every dollar on the animals, they will not get my support. As for you since you do live there instead of bashing me or anyone else on this board, fight for your laws to be enforced. fight for new ones that are in the 21st century. I fight for them in my state you do the same.
“I fight for them in my state you do the same.” Done. Many lessons learned. Do you believe that only you and NC residents should be allowed to comment on horrifying abuse of power pictured here? You think this hasn’t happened in other places, other states? I have spent the past 10 years fighting for reasonable and fair animal welfare laws, starting in my own community, and up to the state legislature. My butt is permanently flat (and wide, too, sorry to say) from sitting for hours and hours on hard benches in hearing rooms in my state capitol.
Do you realize that, like HSUS or not, THEY are the ones pulling all the strings, and that every single law in every single state pertaining to dog breeding and dog ownership is a template provided by – you guessed it – HSUS. Carbon copy. I recognize the NC bill as almost exactly what was presented in my state about 5 years ago. I promise you, from personal experience, events like this one are encouraged by HSUS, they need these images to support their law, it’s sick and disgusting.
We are fortunate to have a well-functioning dog federation to bring common sense and DOG CARE EXPERTISE to the table. We ended up with a workable law to regulate dog breeding. You don’t want to know about it? You prefer to struggle and suffer and continue to fight amongst yourselves, this totally RIDICULOUS WAR between dog fanciers and rescue groups?
Divide and conquer. Never forget that ancient war tactic.
It never ceases to amaze me how cruel and inhumane people can be TO OTHER PEOPLE! Thank you, YesBiscuit, for your courageous post. Yes, you have put out the bait, and have quite the catch, the virtual lynch mob. What part of “no cruelty found” do these people not understand? Clearly AC had targeted these people for at least a year, you’d think they would have a reason, wouldn’t you? Oh, yeah, the reason is they are “breeders”. Someone commenting here suggested that there must have been bribes paid – to whom? Really, that makes no sense. AC was DYING to get these people on something, and in frustration, when they couldn’t, they did this horrific thing, and committed cruelty to these poor dogs out of spite and anger.
Where is our compassion for people? There is a small minority (gawd, I hope small) of people who have made on-line bullying a part time career. Headline for the day – There are wonderful rescue groups and excellent breeders – and there are cruel and insensitive rescuers and careless and neglectful breeders. But, the good guys greatly outnumber the bad. Which is why these people itching for a fight, desperate to justify their disgust for humanity, search for posts like this to troll, using animals to inflict pain on other people – and spend so much time looking for their boogyman. Why does there have to be such a destructive war between animal lovers?
The rescue group that I work with would fire anyone instantly who made comments like some I have read hear. A commenter is proud of going public and patting herself on the back? Well, bye bye from our group. We NEVER EVER speak out publicly about any dog or person we help, no matter how ugly the situation or how sick the dog. This is Rescue Ethics 101, and I am very angry that there are several of these childish comments here. Please, people, try to remember what counts. It’s the welfare of the dogs, and instead of being proud of sharing confidential information on a public forum, OUR kind rescuers are proud of our ability to offer a helping hand to people, talk some down from a ledge, who are not monsters. There are countless reasons why someone with dogs gets into a rough situation, hardly ever is it out of greed or carelessness, or some arbitrary number. Just the opposite is almost always the case – it’s their love for their dogs that gets them into trouble. Maybe their planning lacked forethought, maybe they became ill, maybe a job loss, loss of a spouse, loss of mental capacity . . . None of that is reason for dragging someone through the mud. And before you bring out all the horror stories to justify your truly obnoxious comments, be aware that I wasn’t born yesterday. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Public shaming is never helpful in saving dogs. Ever. It usually drives people AWAY from rescue, so what’s the point to harass and embarrass people? Or even worse, do what this despicable group did to these Chihuahuas and their owners. Those images just tore at my heart.
So this Chihuahua incident happened in NC, why doesn’t that surprise me. I don’t know how Kim Alboum sleeps at night. I wonder if she is haunted by images of a burning, bleeding 10-year-old boy and his desperate father, and their emotionally and financially devastated family? Is she proud of all the planning and manipulating she orchestrated to “make an example” of a family who clearly, dearly loved their dogs, and whose kennel had been updated to pass both local and AKC inspections? Is she proud of the cops who put a child’s beloved elderly Rottweiler on a catch pole and dragged her away in front of the child crying hysterically? This is an issue that has haunted ME, and I don’t even know the family! Does HSUS care that one of their directors is involved in an illegal raid that resulted in the most horrific tragedy imaginable?
Keep up the good work, YesBiscuit. Exposing these thugs will go a long way to clean up the corruption.
WOW.. wonderful..delete all other comments.. there is no need to keep them…human haters go home.. holier than thous.. you aren’t..bullies take note.. you are recognized for what you are..rabid rescuers.. go back to take Rescue Ethics 101 again you flunked the first.. second third and fourth time.. on the other hand. some people will never understand..
” I wasn’t there so I’ll not judge” really? you could have fooled me.
Frankly, I’m rather shocked about this article trying to gain sympathy for backyard breeders who keep unsocialized dogs in cages to breed over and over. That is no life and in my opinion is extremely cruel, and hopefully soon there WILL be a law against BYB and puppy mills. Who could sympathize with someone like this and claim that BRB are the “victims”! It’s the dogs who were the victims here! Why aren’t the rights of these animals not being discussed? They should be protected from being imprisoned and overbreed.
The rescue coordinator reached out to her network and got every single one SAFE. The poor dogs need a lot of TLC that they never had before…Please be happy they are no longer in that dump with people USING their poor little bodies for their own financial gain.
No, I don’t like the catch pole or the photos…I hate it as a matter of fact. Of course I hate gas chambers, anyone who knows me knows I’m an advocate against gas chambers.
Thanks to the amazing new rescue coordinator, none of them were gassed and all are SAFE. She immediately contacted her large network and they came running to help. I’m just thankful all these babies will live out their last days or years in homes and not cages to be breed over and over and over and over…That may not be illegal right now but it is cruel and inhumane. If they were at risk of being fined if the bill passes, then there is something very wrong here, as the bill only requires they are given food and water, adequate housing, daily exercise, and veterinary care when needed. Obviously…They weren’t providing the very mere basics if they were worried they weren’t meeting these standards and “chose” to give them up…Yes, chose, not seized. I hope they will give up more of the animals to the wonderful rescues who have saved them from that dump. Some of the dogs are 12-14 years old possibly with few teeth and in awful condition. Why don’t you speak up for animal rights???
Do you know what a Class H felony is? That appears to be the minimum due to anyone guilty of animal abuse in NC. Minimum.
I don’t think the point of this article was lost at all Basically if we don’t stop them from eroding our rights then we will end up with no rights … just like these animals then, no rights at all! The people who are working so hard in this county to save as many live’s as they can, could benefit from a well written article by yes biscuit instead they got this! Why look for a conspiracy to erode peoples rights & ignore the fact that these people who “breed to supplement their income!” Have taken every single right possible away from these animals, made some money & are happy to do so again & again. What in the world are you thinking that you would stand with the real bad guys here?
“If they were at risk of being fined if the bill passes, then there is something very wrong here, as the bill only requires they are given food and water, adequate housing, daily exercise, and veterinary care when needed” says Larissa umm no the bill says you can only have 10 breedable females and that was the threat they used.. did you even read the article before you commented.. by the way dogs that live to be 12-14 y4ears old are usually not being abused.. or neglected.. and many of them have few teeth .. especially small dogs.. no mater how much care you give them
The ‘owner’ said he never let them out because they might ‘run away’. That alone would violate the rule of daily exercise for these animals.
I am one of few who don’t completely disagree with breeding being allowed, but having said that, there is something very different between caring about dogs and wanting to keep the breed standard alive, and keeping dogs in horrible conditions so some lazy POS doesn’t have to work…
Basic care includes keeping the fleas from making these dogs so miserable that many of them are missing much of their fur and have bloody spots from scratching and biting themselves. It talks of shelter and lighting – unventilated buildings with no relief from the heat, cold, or stench from all of the waste produced, is not basic care. Chicken wire flooring with many to a small cage is not basic care. Having mats so thick that their waste had nowhere to go except on themselves is also not basic care. These are dogs that I have personally seen from this ‘owner’ we are supposed to feel sorry for, because his dogs were ‘taken’ from him.
You would be hard pressed to find another person more willing to stand up for the rights of Americans, but if they came to visit me, I wouldn’t have a thing to fear and wouldn’t give up my animals. Why?, because my animals are taken care of, and there isn’t a reason for me to fear …
By the way, we have senior Chihuahuas that have 90% of their teeth. It is amazing what proper care of an animal can do, like dental care…
“You would be hard pressed to find another person more willing to stand up for the rights of Americans, but if they came to visit me, I wouldn’t have a thing to fear and wouldn’t give up my animals. Why?, because my animals are taken care of, and there isn’t a reason for me to fear …”
That’s what most people think. Ask any rescuer who has been harassed by authorities and had some or all of their animals taken away. There was a lady who posted in the last open thread that authorities even took her kids away temporarily while removing the cats from her rescue. Are they all evil animal abusers too?
The person in the Cleveland Co case shouldn’t have had anything to fear either. He wasn’t breaking any laws. And yet he got multiple visits from the goon squad until he finally gave up 23 dogs.
And I reiterate, because this point seems to be lost, that I am fully supportive of private citizens offering assistance when needed. I have far more faith in the public when it comes to animal welfare than I do any so-called animal shelter, especially a gassing one.
The reason you, and all of us, have a reason to fear is because no one stands up when abuse of power occurs in cases like this. You say you don’t care about abuse of power in this case because you dislike the victim. You say you have nothing to fear because, like this victim, you are not in violation of the law.
Are you so certain that if you became a victim at some point, that people would stand up and fight for your cause? Because everyone loves you? Because it would be obvious even to people who don’t know you that you were in the right as no laws were broken and you weren’t charged with a crime? Maybe you wouldn’t give up animals the first time the badge flashers swooped in with their trucks, kicked down your front door, with the local TV news in tow. Maybe. But how many of those visits do you think you could withstand before you started bargaining? “If I give you 23 animals, will you stop harassing me?”
YES. What Shirley said.
More, you cannot ethically use a bill that has not passed, that has not been signed into law, that is so much paper and good intentions, as if it were law – or even a done deal, soon to become law. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but it cannot be enforced as law, or used as a legal fulcrum against anyone, until it actually is law.
Sometimes while reading these threads, I want to bang my head into the wall. It’s like as soon as the topic is animal welfare, there are people only too willing to toss out law, ethics, and good sense, on the presumption that it will only apply to those they despise.
People, what goes around comes around.
I always want to know from these people who should be “allowed” to breed dogs?
Look, I’m very pleased that all of these dogs that were surrendered survived the experience. They are apparently very fortunate that the shelter has one employee who cares enough to get them to safety. It’s rescue groups that did the heavy lifting (again).
Look at the gloved hands in the photos. Those hands are the same ones that stuff dogs into a gas chamber and turn on the gas.
You’ll forgive me if I don’t trust those hands or the people attached to them to “care” about the welfare of those dogs any more than the people who surrendered them.
Those are the basic barely humane requirements IF they have more than 10 breeding female dogs. Are you saying these extremely basic life essentials are too much to give an animal? Please read the proposed bill. http://ncleg.net/Sessions/2013/Bills/House/PDF/H930v3.pdf
(a) Any person who owns, has custody of, or maintains 10 or more female dogs over
10 the age of six months that are capable of reproduction and kept primarily for the purpose of 11 breeding and selling the offspring as pets shall provide the following for each dog owned, kept, 12 or maintained by that person:
13 (1) 14 (2) 15 (3) 16
17 (4) 18 (5) 19 (6) 20 (7) 21
22 (8) 23 (9) 24 25
26 27 28 (10) 29 (11) 30 31 32 33 34 35 (12)
Access to exercise on a daily basis. Access to fresh food and water. Access to fresh food provided at appropriate intervals to maintain a healthy weight. Appropriate veterinary care, including routine and preventative care. Daily assessment of each dog’s overall health and behavior. Appropriate and prompt treatment or attention to any deviation in health. Preventative care sufficient to keep dogs free from internal and external parasites. When necessary, euthanasia performed humanely. A primary enclosure that (i) is constructed and maintained so that dogs are securely confined, (ii) does not cause injury to the dogs, (iii) protects the dogs from extreme weather conditions, (iv) is maintained in a sanitary manner, and (v) is large enough that each dog can sit, stand, lie down, or turn around comfortably with no overcrowding. Protection from adverse or extreme weather conditions. Flooring that provides solid footing. If wire is used as flooring of a primary enclosure, it should be comprised of a material featuring a protective coating, be of an appropriate size to prevent injury, particularly to the dogs’ feet, and must be kept in good repair. If wire is used, a solid platform of sufficient size should be provided to allow the dogs to attain solid footing and to offer a space for resting. Lighting that provides a regular lighting cycle for the dogs.
A BILL TO BE ENTITLED
*H930-v-3*
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34
General Assembly Of North Carolina Session 2013
In addition, any bedding material made available to dogs shall be clean and not pose a risk to the dogs.
(b) Any person who owns, has custody of, or maintains 10 or more female dogs over the age of six months that are capable of reproduction and kept primarily for the purpose of breeding and selling the offspring as pets shall keep the facility and primary enclosures clean and free from debris and odor and shall remove feces and dispose of them as frequently as necessary so as not to pose a threat to the health of the dogs.
numbers mean nothing..why 10? why not 1? or why not 100 ? who cares how many dogs someone owns as long as they keep them in good condition? these terms are vague and could be interpreted in any way.. if you want laws ,.. make them specific suppose my dog maintained a “healthy weight” by being fed once every three days.. would that be ok with you? what is a “deviation in health” exactly? What is routine veterinary care? Is shooting a dog a humane death? It is certainly fast.. faster than any gas chamber. What bedding poses a risk to dogs? Straw? Blankets? exactly what type of bedding is that? There is no one way to raise dogs.. there are many.. you people just refuse to accept that.. you wonder why dogs are frightened when you take them.. maybe it is because they LIKE where they are..you refuse to think that dogs don;t need people or that dogs can prefer to be with other dogs.. “socializing” to dogs is being with other dogs.. not with people but you continue to use anthropomorphism when it is obvious you know little about animals
Carbon copy, boilerplate HSUS language. Get a grip on this, NC, or you will be very, very sorry. And the worst is yet to come, folks. This law will require “rules” – that’s where HSUS really shines, using the animosity between animal lovers – that rescue/breeder war – to distract people from the final result. In our state, the law was good, the rules were so bad that the law is basically unenforceable, and the Amish farmers are still operating, filling in the gap left by the good guys who threw up their hands and quit or moved. The fancy breeders were most serious affected because of the fine print in the law/rules that included co-ownerships in THAT MAGIC BUT ARBITRARY NUMBER of intact females. We saved ourselves from the worst, but it was moot, because of enforcement problems.
I wouldn’t be one bit surprised to find that Kim Alboum, HSUS NC director, wasn’t behind this Cleveland Co. debacle, just as she was behind the illegal seizure of great Danes that resulted in the deaths of a loving father and innocent young boy due to harassment and intimidation that went on well beyond the original animal grab and resultant publicity. Ruin the lives of people, maybe Kim says “collateral damage, sorry”.
It should be 1. And yes of course these standards are below ridiculous for the animals. We have to be the voice for the voiceless. Ban puppy mills and backyard breeders who are inhumane, period. Ban gas chambers.
Doug what is this reference to shooting a dog?
Doug, what do you consider good condition and what the laws should be?
What do people think about shooting vs. gassing?
So this idiot has no clue on how animals should be treated. Oh and just shoot them it’s quicker…. “doug williams Says: Is shooting a dog a humane death? It is certainly fast..”
NO IDIOT STOP THE BREEDING AND KILLING.
August 19, 2013 at 11:30 pm
numbers mean nothing..why 10? why not 1? or why not 100 ? who cares how many dogs someone owns as long as they keep them in good condition? these terms are vague and could be interpreted in any way.. if you want laws ,.. make them specific suppose my dog maintained a “healthy weight” by being fed once every three days.. would that be ok with you? what is a “deviation in health” exactly? What is routine veterinary care? Is shooting a dog a humane death? It is certainly fast.. faster than any gas chamber. What bedding poses a risk to dogs? Straw? Blankets? exactly what type of bedding is that? There is no one way to raise dogs.. there are many.. you people just refuse to accept that.. you wonder why dogs are frightened when you take them.. maybe it is because they LIKE where they are..you refuse to think that dogs don;t need people or that dogs can prefer to be with other dogs.. “socializing” to dogs is being with other dogs.. not with people but you continue to use anthropomorphism when it is obvious you know little about animals
LAWD DISREGARD THE LAST PARAGRAPH FROM THAT LOON ANIMAL DISPOSAL FREAK. THAT DID NOT COME FROM ME.
“doug williams Says: Is shooting a dog a humane death? It is certainly fast..”
So you are shooting them?
Who is the person who posted this, “Is shooting a dog a humane death? It is certainly fast.”
To those posting that dogs who are scared out of their minds=abusive living conditions:
You want to see some dogs freak out like there’s no tomorrow? Take mine away. We live in a rural area, have a fenced yard and are very private people. Our dogs only know each other and us. They don’t have other canine or human friends. They are healthy and well loved family members who mean the world to us.
But I assume many commenters here would brand them “unsocialized” as soon as they saw them freaking out on the end of a chokepole when animal killers came to take them away. And that’s for the relatively normal ones. The one who came to me with severe anxiety and has managed over time to keep it to a dull roar here at home would probably attempt to hide, bite and ultimately fall over dead when her heart exploded – about 10 minutes after being taken.
Apparently that would make some of you very happy. Another evil abusive dog owner shut down, her dogs now “safe” in rescue. Who cares if she wasn’t violating any laws, amirite?
This is the whole point, I hope Larissa Tuttle can take a deep breath and really read this comment.
I recently read “Rin Tin Tin – the Life and the Legend” by Susan Orlean. Chapter 10 should be required reading for ANYONE who rescues animals. “Hitler cared deeply about animals and animal welfare. ‘In the Third Reich,’ he once announced, ‘cruelty to animals should no longer exist.’ Some of the earliest law enacted by the Nazi Party pertained to animal protection, and violators could be sent to concentration camps.” And we all know how Hitler felt about human beings.
If your blood doesn’t run cold reading the history of animal rights in Nazi Germany, and you can’t seem to identify similar behavior by many people and groups today, you shouldn’t be involved in rescue.
I am a legislative liaison for three dog organizations, and I have to track things like this. One of the best books I have read pertaining to the frantic proliferation of hard line animal laws was “One Nation Under Arrest” “How Crazy Law, Rogue Prosecuters, and Activist Judges Threaten Your Liberty”. The behavior of Cleveland Co. Animal Control is not unique, I’m afraid.
I have no illusions. I wish I could feel as smugly invulnerable as Larissa Tuttle claims to be. But since I have a high profile in my community related to bad laws and unfair and illegal prosecutions, I already have a target on my back. I wish I could live as privately as YesBiscuit, I envy that. But neither of us are really safe from false allegations related to our animals.
same here.. I am sure one of mine would bite someone if they came in.. in fact i count on it when I am here alone.. the others would be confused and anxious.. which I am sure would translate into “Kill the biter.. and look the others have never been “properly socialized”.. and sure it make them a]happy their happiness depends on another person misery
I’m not sure about the “Hitler” comment, but know this about me, I am a strong advocate against gas chambers and I also do not like the pictures here. If you would actually read my comments before taking a shot at me you would have known this. I’m also completely saddened that there are so many people who are promoting backyard breeding and puppy mill treatment of animals on this. The fact is these dogs are in horrible condition, which is just horrific. The new rescue coordinator here is doing all she can to help them–all are safe in rescue and are now getting proper vetting and tender loving care likely for the first time in their lives in foster homes. People need to focus on spay and neuter and not contribute to the overpopulation of animals. Puppy mills and backyard breeders have plenty of blood on their hands as they are huge contributors to animals winding up in gassing shelters and other kill shelters. I’m out of here because I can’t change the mindset of people that contribute to overpopulation and hence, the killing of more animals. Bye.
“Puppy mills and backyard breeders have plenty of blood on their hands as they are huge contributors to animals winding up in gassing shelters and other kill shelters. ”
There will always be irresponsible people. But the fact is, they aren’t the ones killing the animals that end up in shelters.
“not sure about the HItler comment”? You should be sure, it is chilling how many attitudes and beliefs in today’s animal rights groups resemble the beliefs – very easily verified – of Hitler himself and followed by the Nazi party in the late ’30s. My parents were both WWII veterans, I don’t fling that word ‘Nazi’ around flippantly, as many do. If Hitler had been smarter, I wouldn’t exist.
Whenever German citizens were observed behaving in a certain way that Hitler himself didn’t approve of, the government simply wrote a law to ban that behavior. What was fully legal one day could be made illegal with dire consequences the next. Animal issues were especially important to the Third Reich. I recommend you read some history books. At the very LEAST, read Chapter 10 in “Rin Tin Tin – the Life and the Legend” by Susan Orlean. Orlean is a scrupulous researcher, highly respected, and if you dispute any of her comments, you can find the source in her extensive bibiography.
@Chien I think I understand your point…I just don’t feel we’re on the road to this type of slippery slope of having rights taken away. It’s kind of crazy that Hitler liked dogs and was such a sick person. As far as legislation for animal welfare, getting legislation passed to protect the welfare of animals is extremely difficult and often opposed by the government, sometimes due to lobbyists and the dept. of ag’s concern about “slippery slope.” The animals do deserve the basic rights to food, water, daily exercise, proper housing, and veterinary care which is all the proposed bill is proposing for people who have 10 or more breeding female dogs. That’s certainly not too much to ask people to do the least possible to be humane. And this state is extremely behind the times when it comes to laws protecting animals from mistreatment. NC is a puppy mill state and extremely high kill, and breeders are creating animals born to die. Unfortunately, the bill does not ban puppy mills, it just requires the aforementioned basics.
@Larissa – the slippery slope isn’t quite a valid analogy. What we have is the anti-animal groups – and make no mistake, HSUS is exactly the same in mission as PETA, except for the tactics. It’s old news, no need to describe here how these two orgs play Good Cop/Bad Cop with the public. What we have here is something like traditional warfare being waged against animal WELFARE proponents, which would include probably 95% of Americans, but they don’t give it a name. The other 5% is comprised of maybe 2 to 3% of truly vile people, and the 1 to 2% vegan population. Which fluctuates, a moving target, because not many vegans are vegans for more than a few years. A few, but a very few. The rest of us, animal WELFARISTS, for lack of a better term, are also divided into roughly two groups with quite a wide overlap in the middle, which would be breeders and rescuers. That wide middle is a LOT of people. But HSUS and PETA are experts at that warfare technique called Divide and Conquer. They profit hugely by every little split, faction, conflict between all the welfarists. And this is how we are already losing our rights to own, breed, train and work with our own dogs. We have lost a lot, squeezed between pet limits, BSL, insurance issues, breeding limits and space limits, noise ordinances, zoning laws, fencing regulations, high licensing costs (each one of these issues has something good going for it that gets carried to the extreme quickly), and most importantly, these rights are not valued by the public because of our own disrespect for each other, breeders, owners and rescuers. We argue over everything, mostly what we call ourselves and each other, which brings me to share a pledge that I made very publicly about a year ago. That pledge is to NEVER EVER AGAIN utter certain filty derogatory slur words against ANYONE. And I mean anyone, and I mean ever. I won’t even spell them out here, you can play a little game of Alphabet if you want, but I will not write or speak those words in public. To me, they are close cousins to the “N” word, although not quite as nasty. But the people who utter those slur words usually intend them to be pretty darned nasty. An example might be, say I bred a litter of puppies from my health tested, finished champion show dog that I co-own with her breeder. I spent more than $3,000 getting this litter on the ground. I will – ahem – SELL these puppies to approved – ahem again – BUYERS without a single regret. They will be expensive. And worth every penny. And not one of these pups will ever, as much as I can possible guarantee in the real world, see the inside of an animal shelter or turn up in ‘rescue’. And guess what. I have a back yard! And that back yard will be where these puppies will spend a lot of time when they are old enough. But if anyone DARES to call me one of those slur words, we will have words. Strong ones. OK? Understood? Thanks for listening.
Oh, lord. Godwin’s Law applies.
In after Godwin! Woo!
Good thing I’m not the one who brought it up! It came out of left field.
Just to let you know I did not miss the point and who are you the sue police? My comment was just a comment as with any other comment and you make a mountain out of a mole hill. It’s obvious you missed the point because in the story it was written “no violations were found”. I guess you missed that. so there is the “fact” that the reason I’ve appended is valid and not merely hot air and insults as you put it. . Get off your high horse.
My comment was meant for EUCRITTA.
“horrible, horrific, deplorable” is what they had
“tender loving care” is what they now have..
“Overpopulation and back yard breeding and puppy mills must be stopped no matter what the cost”
Every animal must be spayed and neutered or you are just nor a “responsible person”
so speaks the animal rights fanatic
The reason you, and all of us, have a reason to fear is because no one stands up when abuse of power occurs in cases like this. You say you don’t care about abuse of power in this case because you dislike the victim. You say you have nothing to fear because, like this victim, you are not in violation of the law.
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Which law tho? The potential law or the existing law? People should be ashamed of themselves for doing this. I hope they sue.
Fortunately, most laws were written to prevent someone from coming after someone else just because *they don’t like them*. It can still happen obviously and does but it’s not all that common.
It seems to me that the laws that HSUS pushes are worded to make people have to prove they aren’t guilty. We’re loosing the premise *innocent until proven guilty* and sinking quickly into *guilty, guilty, guilty* because we dare to exist with animals in our lives.
Where is the proof of abuse of power vs. telling someone if the bill passes that they are out of compliance? Sounds like hearsay. The bill is not even a ban of breeders. It only requires that the animals be given food, water, daily exercise, proper housing, and vet care. Why are people on this thread so vehemently against a bill that only requires the very least of humane treatment of animals? These animals are in miserable condition and finally all are in homes and vetted with TLC…probably have never been out of a wire cage before this. :( If it makes you fans of the breeder any happier, there are still more than 40 dogs living at that hellhole…Poor innocent animals that have no voice and people on here want to destroy the voice of the voiceless.
It’s dishonest, unethical, and an abuse of power to use a bill that hasn’t passed as a lever to get people to surrender their animals.
HSUS is a tax exempt charity. 501(c)(3) organizations are not legally permitted to do more than a tiny amount of legislative lobbying and are not supposed to be involved in political campaigns at all. HSUS is up to it’s eyeballs in lobbying and politics. They try to conceal it in various ways, including their tax returns, but the violations are easily documented anyway.
Charities are granted tax-exempt privileges because they provide services that the private sector and the government cannot. HSUS avoids paying tens of millions of dollars a year in taxes by posing as a charity. The Humane Society Legislative Fund was formed in 2004 to serve as their 501(4)(c) lobbying arm, but it doesn’t have any lobbyists and didn’t even register as a lobbying group until 2012. It’s nothing more than a front. HSUS does the “unlimited lobbying” the HSLF was created to do. The only reason HSUS still has it’s tax exempt status is that they got that wretched lackey Lois Lerner to block the IRS investigation. HSUS now has 45 state lobbyists, including Kimberly Alboum. They only represent a part of HSUS’s lobbying activities and expenses.
Pacelle and his minions have warped philosophies regarding dogs and cats. Not surprisingly, the regulations and laws they push do not solve the problems they pretend to care about, and in many cases, make the situation worse. The major beneficiaries of HSUS lobbying are their many bank accounts and the power-tripping megalomaniacs that run the place.
If I lived in North Carolina, I’d complain about HSUS’s political activity there – the amount of it, the motives behind it, and the consequences of it (intended and unintended). People in Missouri and Maine have exposed HSUS’s abuses. North Carolina is one of their biggest lobbying centers.
Thank you, Jim, for your analysis of HSUS – you are right on all counts. And as far as their political activity in NC, I join your suggestion that NC residents pay close attention. The Wilson Co. NC tragic murder/suicide, the aftermath of an illegal raid orchestrated by HSUS’s state director, Kim Alboum (linked here in other comments) should grab the attention of the public. If there are any real investigative journalists left in NC who aren’t in the hip pocket of Wayne Pacelle, they would find it fruitful to go back into public records and construct a timeline on that illegal raid and all that followed. It should be easy to uncover evidence of abuse of power and possibly even more illegal activities. HSUS operates on the same model of organized crime, and, in fact, there is a RICO suit against them ongoing, stay tuned. RICO suits are a big deal, the standards are miles higher than any typical lawsuit. These are ruthless people using animals as a front. People who continue to work for and with HSUS are getting some kind of benefit – automatic credibility, enhanced public image, the ability to connect to the cult of celebrity, for example. And politicians get big campaign donations and a chance at a “humane legislator” plaque, without having to actually . . . like, . . . be ‘humane’ to any real live animals.
Another truly sad situation.
http://www.wilsontimes.com/News/Feature/Story/24223013—BREAKING-POINT
Susi says:
It seems to me that the laws that HSUS pushes are worded to make people have to prove they aren’t guilty. We’re loosing the premise *innocent until proven guilty* and sinking quickly into *guilty, guilty, guilty* because we dare to exist with animals in our lives.
OH so true and so timely I hate to give HSUS any clicks but this one pushes exactly what she says.. GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY ,… and you MUST PAY
http://www.humanesociety.org/news/magazines/2013/09-10/the-cost-of-care-animal-cruelty-case-seizures.html
It only requires that the animals be given food, water, daily exercise, proper housing, and vet care. Read the bill I posted it way up.
Does it speak to elderly chihuahua’s on choke poles? No didn’t think so? As in the Cleveland case, the ends do NOT justify the means.
the bill targets people who dare to own more than the allotted number of 10 ( for now) “breedable ” females, obviously it is an anti breeding bill nothing to do with care .. only numbers.. HSUS/PETA/ASPCA written and driven as they have in many other states.. pick a number.. make sure it is not reachable unless many people give up their animals.. their true purpose.. to control people and eventually top make us a petless society.
Doug, I challenge you to actually read the bill before posting. It’s only if they have 10 or more than they have to give food, water, etc. Which is ridiculous because any living creature should be given all this…
exactly so why the number?
Why the focus on the number? It should be one. Any living creature should be allowed to food, water, proper housing, not trapped in a wire cage all day? Do you allow your own children this I hope? Do you have pets and allow them this? Do you think the laws should require this for you when you were a child? Is this unreasonable to you? I think the bill is too lax. If you were an animal, would you want to live your life in a wire cage for your whole life until you were used up and thrown away to a kill shelter? Do you think that is right? Well, you said I’m an animal “fanatic”, a personal attack and not an intelligent argument, so I don’t think you care about other living creatures or have read the proposed bill enough to comprehend it.
Anyone who fights against a bill to provide the minimum of food, water, out of a cage once daily, vet care, more basics…It may not be illegal in this state to not provide the basics but is sickly immoral to not provide it. It is beyond comprehensible to fight against it.
What makes you so bitter and cynical that you assume that people won’t provide basic care for their animals unless there is a law requiring it. That is just ridiculous. Anyone who breeds animals of any kind knows that good care is necessary for healthy babies. Why don’t you take your angry energy and focus on parents and children? Oh, but wait, there are laws against child abuse and neglect. And . . . News Flash . . .
there are laws everywhere, even in NC, against animal abuse and neglect. You probably should make good use of the internet and find out what is already on the books. And, while you are at it, look up some basic civics lessons, and learn how to write effective laws, and don’t forget to read the Bill of Rights. How often have you heard this phrase . . . “you can’t legislate morality”? You are wasting your time repeating oversimplifications that imply that everyone is a criminal until you decide otherwise.
I have a long roundabout question, partly rhetorical, for the private rescue folks. It comes from observing some of the worst bickering I have ever heard between dog groups. In my area, rescue groups are like dividing cancer cells in many cases. Popular breeds, like Chihuahuas, Labs, goldens, all have quite a few breed specific rescue groups that are all offshoots of one another, and have zero relationship to the parent breed clubs. I am not bashing private rescue groups, but I do see a disturbing amount of bad-mouthing and splitting off into other groups who then sort of ‘compete’ with one another for the Rescue Badge of Honor. I was at a Dog Fair one year where the tension was palpable between two rescue groups who the fair committee had positioned close to each other. Often there is a good reason for a split – a friends’ breed specific private group refused to re-home any dog of their breed with a bite history. So a new group formed that claimed “we can save them ALL”, and has been known to adopt out more than one dog with a documented history of aggression.
According to statistics, AKC parent breed club rescues are responsible for more re-homed dogs than all established private rescue groups combined, yet NEVER get any pats on the back, and in fact, are usually anonymous. So, when raids like the Wilson Co. great Dane seizure and this one, with the Chihuahuas, do any HSUS state directors ever work with parent club breed specific rescue? Did any of these purebred dogs find homes through parent club rescue? I have never heard of it, but that’s not ‘evidence’ of anything much. What makes me ask, besides the fact that I regularly campaign for groups to stop the bickering and work together, is that I have a deep suspicion of the motives of HSUS – I admit that. But in cases of high profile raids, what would be wrong with taking advantage of highly successful rescue networks for any purebred dogs recovered? I have my suspicions, but I haven’t been involved in more than a couple of rescue situations with more than a handful of dogs, so my experience is limited.
easy answer.. they are evil dog BREEDERS and if one or more of the dogs,looks like it might add something positive to the ever shrinking gene pool of many breeds and it has papers.. they might GADZOOKS breed it how despicable.. how horrific.. etc..
That’s my take on it as well. I think there are other considerations, such as publicity. Parent club rescue ethics require confidentiality. That makes the fund raising pretty much impossible, and certainly eliminates the opportunity to spread the “animal abuse pornography” that so many people get their high emotion and justification for hatred from. Taking the high road isn’t profitable.
No, actually HSUS did send out letters some time back to all parent clubs requesting a mutual working relationship. I don’t know what occurred in every club but I don’t believe they were welcomed with open arms and a glass of sweet tea in very many clubs, if any.
Susan.. not with rescues they didn’t.. they wanted breeders to join a breeders council but few wanted to go to bed with them and wiht good reason
It seems like some of the rescues were approached at appx the same time but I stand corrected.
My breed club will expel anyone who publicly associates with HSUS and mentions their club affiliation. If someone wants to send them donations, that’s none of our club’s business, but that HSUS breeder council is deemed not in the best interests of purebred dogs. Among other things. The biggest difference between parent club rescue and private rescue is the code of ethics that forbids exposing names or dog information in public. In my club, rescue never shares info even to our members. The committee gets trolled all the time, members seeking gossip and confidential information, but so far the committee has been discreet.
so why the number 10? children are not dog.. but while you are speaking of that.. many children have dental problems they are not taken from their parents because of it.. many children have eye problems and skin conditions.. are they still with their parents.. yes they are..
And another thing that hard liners with an agenda add to the “dental problems” is matted coats and “long nails”. These are often undefined indictments without any flexibility or common sense objectivity. What ages are these dogs with the matted coats? What type of mats, how extensive, there are many levels, from ‘the dog hasn’t been brushed for a few days’ to horrific, disabling filthy insect-infested mats to the skin. Unless the latter is actually described by an objective party, and photographed, how believable is the claim? I’ve seen video and photos taken from raids that show dogs in very good condition, yet are described as coming from ‘deplorable conditions, with matted coats, skin diseases’ and on and on. And these same dogs are offered for adoption in only a couple of days, usually by the weekend. Haven’t any of you had very elderly dogs? Some of these Chihuahuas were said to be 12 to 14 years old, you can expect some with long coats to be matted and have long nails. It’s a matter of degree, and just saying ‘matted’ doesn’t mean squat unless you have real proof. My old SAR dog had a faulty coat, was born with it. It tended to mats, I swear, within moments of a combing. He HATED grooming, so when he became old and frail, I couldn’t bear to put him through a lot of grooming sessions. It stressed him. I let his coat mat up, and used scissors to cut out mats rather than put him through combing and brushing. I did only what was necessary to keep him comfortable, but he looked like hell for about 4 years. His teeth were bad, his breath worse, and his nails longer than the other dogs’. He had cataracts besides. Because of my high profile in the legislative area, I kept him home when we took the other dogs out in the community, rather than risk some fool reporting me to animal control for neglect or cruelty. And that has happened, or it wouldn’t have occurred to me. He died of old age, almost 17 – never neglected a single moment of his long life, in fact, he was pampered. And he had an amazing career working for police locating missing people and remains for grieving families, and some might say he was treated cruelly by being ‘forced’ to work. Another thing that wouldn’t have occurred to me if I hadn’t heard that garbage with my own ears.
I never take the descriptions of dogs in raids for granted any more. I used to. I never thought humane societies and rescues would exaggerate or lie about these things. I know better now, having seen for myself and read police reports and talked to rescue volunteers. Good news doesn’t sell, doesn’t open wallets.
All my Flatcoats have matted ears, pretty much all the time. Some, worse than others. One, whom I spayed around age 5, developed the worst case of spay coat I’ve ever had. Not only do her ears mat but everything else does too. I know I could keep her shaved down but that would remove her built in protection from the elements so I choose not to do it. Instead, like you, I choose to clip the mats out periodically, leaving the rest of her coat intact. If someone wanted to allege neglect, I suppose they’d have a decent shot. But you can be sure I’d fight it and would have the opportunity to explain in court one of the hazards of spaying, haha.
A friend had a dog that was recovering from a debilitating immune disease – she lost a lot of weight, and my friend spent many thousands of dollars to treat the dog. Saved her life. A neighbor called AC claiming extreme neglect, and the AC agreed, seized this sick dog on the spot and TOOK HER TO THE SHELTER!. With dogs with unknown diseases and parasites, risking everything. Thank goodness the vet was able to reach the shelter director to explain the situation within a couple of hours. From that time on, my friend carried copies of vet records, including a rabies exemption certificate, with her at all times when walking the dog. I’ll never forget that lesson myself, as all of my dogs live into great old age, the youngest dog I lost was 12, and she was the ONLY dog in 50 years that I had spayed at 6 months – and she was hypothyroid, had a cruciate ligament injury, and died way too young of hemangio sarcoma, all things that are related to early spay. And the only dog I have had in – now – more than 60 years, with any of those disorders. A whole other topic for another day.
This is the most disturbing thing I have read in some time. I am not into he said she said, but these AC officers need to be fired. I prefer much pain inflicted to them, but firing them is a good start!!
What is wrong with being vegan? I’ve been vegan for years, and I know a few other cat rescuers who are vegan. What we choose to eat is a private matter and has nothing to do with our work with animals. I just don’t understand the vegan bashing I saw earlier in this thread.