Weigh in on Heartsticking Incident at Miami-Dade Animal Services

A press release this week detailed a former employee’s account of a mass killing of cats at Miami-Dade Animal Services via the heartstick method.  The killings were reportedly performed without sedation and all by one technician on October 22, 2010.  A staff member reported the incident and the technician was demoted to a position where he no longer kills pets at the shelter.  The person reporting the incident was terminated in January 2011.  None of this information seems to be disputed by MDAS.

The statement from the witness can be read here but be warned, some details may be too graphic for sensitive readers.

MDAS released an official response yesterday and you can read that here.  In addition, I received this from the shelter director, Dr. Sara Pizano, in response to my request for a comment:

[W]hen I began as Director in 2005, I was the one who stopped heartsticks for euthanasia with animals who were not sedated.  This technician was doing heartsticks and so was terminated.

We’ve made tremendous progress since becoming an independent Department in 2005 and the number of animals saved has increased from 6,000 to 14,000.  If you are familiar with shelter statistics you can appreciate the significance of that.

Indeed that is a wonderful improvement.  But it’s important to note that the 14,000 figure from 2009 still represents a 62% kill rate.

I’ve come down hard on MDAS in the past when I’ve felt it was warranted.  But in this situation, I’m inclined to give them a conditional pass while still condemning the shelter’s killing of healthy/treatable pets.  It would be different if the whistleblower was alleging she was fired without cause or if there were allegations that heartsticking was an ongoing practice at the shelter.  Neither of those allegations are being made.  The incident was reported, swift action was apparently taken and the technician was demoted to a position where he would be unable to kill cats so cruelly in future.

I appreciate how horrifying it is to those of us opposed to killing adoptable pets to hear details of cats suffering as they are being needlessly killed.  But by the same measure, this is what we want to happen in situations like these.  We want people to speak up, we want the shelter administration to take the allegations seriously and we want those responsible for the cruelty removed.

Perhaps the case could be made for complete termination from MDAS and criminal charges of animal cruelty against the individual, I don’t know.  I mean, I know how I feel about it, but I don’t know if either scenario is realistic.  Someone with knowledge of union regulations and FL animal law would have to be consulted.  I hope those avenues were explored.

But in a general sense, as disgusted as I am at the actions of the heartsticking technician, I fail to see how MDAS can be condemned for their handling of the incident.  There’s no evidence to suggest MDAS knew this was happening before the whistleblower came forward.  Once they learned of it, they took action to ensure it wouldn’t happen again.

What do you think?


51 thoughts on “Weigh in on Heartsticking Incident at Miami-Dade Animal Services

    1. Heartsticking is when the Fatal Plus is injected directly into the animal’s heart, instead of a vein (which is the more common method). It is usually reserved as a method of last resort and only used on heavily sedated animals due to the pain and suffering it causes.

  1. I think they handled it well, truth be told – I would like to see heartsticking BANNED – it is cruel and inhumane in my view. However, it DOES sound like management acted quickly and with intent. So I believe they deserve credit for that. The kill rate could be improved but it sounds like they are being proactive and trying.

  2. I want to know “Why the technician wasn’t terminated?” so not allowed to kill animals any longer is the punishment dealt out? hmmmmmm…so a child abuser is no longer allowed in the daycare…..enough said…. meanwhile :o) pif

  3. ooooooo duh…..how did I miss that? must need java this a.m…..well what took so long? no ya knew I had a question in there somewhere. Gotta applaud the shelter for gradually overcoming and moving forward..one day at a time..one dog at a time…move forward.. :o) pif

  4. Hold the bus….have to play devils advocate on this one.

    If that shelter employee was a regular John/Jane Q Public there would have been charges brought against him/her for animal cruelty for doing something so awful. If you have never seen a heartstick – imagine the intense pain first of a needle being shoved directly into your heart. It has to go through the chest wall AND severly layers of muscle – here’s the catch…without sedation you are doing this on a moving animal. They squirm and wiggle…so the tech misses and hits the lungs instead, or maybe just some nerves. So they do it again…and again…and again…until they get it right. On top of all that the mixture in the needle of sodium pentobarbital burns like acid. So lungs full of a burning liquid while they try again. Doesn’t sound the least bit of fun – to me. AND for someone to do it over and over tells me that there is something wrong with this person. Could YOU do that over and over again? Even if you had dead on aim and hit the heart right away, first try there is still going to be some major pain that poor animal is feeling.

    Now imagine hearing that this is the ONLY method that a vet will use for euthanization….do we accept that? What if we hear of a vet tech stealing the stuff from work and using it on feral cats, is it ok then? Or, God forbid, some regular person does the same thing – no vet tech degree, no experience – do you still think it’s ok?

    Just where DO we draw the line? Seems to me like the line was drawn when the shelter director said this is an inproper way of doing this and discontinued the practice. Same as hundreds of thousands of people did at the uproar of discovering that places actually did this to animals. It has been labeled as cruel and inhumane…so why is it acceptable to allow ANYONE to keep doing it? I don’t care if you work at a shelter and it’s your job to kill the animals…that is suppose to be a safe haven for our unwanted animals – not an additional place to inflict pain and suffering. Most humane societies have mottos that include something about being there to put an end to animal suffer and be their safe haven (or something similarly worded).

    While this shelter may be on the right track – and granted they did serve their form of swift punishment. But is it enough? Not to me it isn’t. The person doing such unspeakable acts of torture should have been fired. Period. Not demoted, not allowed to volunteer – but FIRED. That person shouldn’t be allowed to work with animals again. As for animal cruelty charges – if just anybody did that they would be facing abuse charges – and so should this person – 1 count for each animal he/she did this to. (at least in my opinion)

    If you haven’t seen heartstick performed – consider yourself lucky. I have seen it and watched the animal suffer horribly before death. It is NOT instant and over quickly (even if they hit the heart first try). I have watched animals defecate and urinate all over themselves while spasming like they are having a major seizure. Some animals roll around and look like they are trying to scratch at their chest, as best they can, with huge freaking out eyes. Consider yourself VERY lucky if you haven’t seen it. If you have seen it then you know EXACTLY what I’m talking about.

    So, in my opinion, I think MORE should have been done to the person responsible for this – they did not get what they deserved. They got a slap on the wrist for inflicting major pain on a mass number of cats. Reminds me of the horrors Michael Vick did – and then did time for racketeering and nothing for the dogs. A meer slap on the wrist for possible hours of torture.

    1. I concur that and have seen it. HORRIFIC doesnt begin to cover it. HUMANE it ISN”T… I am glad someone else jumped in here as I was just bouncing through. Kudos to the writer. :o) pif

      1. I really appreciated the statement of the whistleblower, she did an excellent job of explaining the choices. I’m sorry she lost her job, and I hope she finds another job elsewhere where she can continue to be an advocate and care for animals in need.
        I personally could not go back and continue to work at a place where I had witnessed such cruelty.

  5. Erica,

    The employee who was demoted IS protected by his union. Dr Pizano used every discrfetionary tool she had to punish him.

    GThe real questtion I have is for all of you who claim she’s doing such a poor job what are YOU doing to help? I know our group is always looking for volunteers but it’s the same tireless people who show up and actually get their hands dirty.

    How many of YOU have written the local commissioners or mayor in a positive professional tone seeking a completion date for the long needed new shelter.

    How many of YOU local advocates have bothered to go in front of the commissioners and asked them to support and pay for programs you would like implemented.

    Dr Pizano has an enourmous responsibilty in running a shelter that is open seven days a week with over 400 employees. Surely you don’t expect her to find time to lobby for YOU as well?

    The leadership of NKN lives about twenty miles from the shelter – why is they seem to have so little information on which programs are working and which are not.

    Both George and Debi might want to leave their comfy house twenty miles from the war zone and see what they can do to help. I’ve probably visited that shelter more times in the last several weeks and I live 700 miles away.

    I know the answer to that for as they told me when they booted me off their “advocacy page” they are too busy selling No Kill franchises to be bothered with such trivial detail. They got a NATIONAL ORGANIZATION to run. Somehow, I’m not impressed.

    1. Randy, This seems to be a new habit for you – using the comments in this blog to voice your grievances over being blocked elsewhere online. Please don’t do that. It’s bad form. Never mind that this post (or the other one you’ve been posting similar comments on) is NOT ABOUT No Kill Nation. Again, bad form. Please consider this a friendly, one-time warning to stay on topic and not abuse the comments.

    2. Randy, while your comment/complaint seems directed right at George Moris and his No Kill Nation Facebook page, let me pick up the banner and run with it for you.

      First, let me set you straight – some of us are tirelessly working in the trenches to effect real change. I direct you to my 2 briefest pages and ask you to study them carefully. This is the future of animal rescue.

      Unlike George’s cute little effort, I don’t measure success by popularity or how many seats I can sell to a conference filled with believers. I don’t preach to the choir – I walk right into the lion’s den and try to deal directly with those in positions of power inthis ugly killing industry.

      My Adoption Center model is based on FIFTY (50) years of “industry” experience. It is a total replacement for sheltering as we know it. Today’s shelter model must be replaced. Yes, even the best ones suck! Until we acknowledge that cages or private rooms are not the way to display SOCIAL animals, nothing will ever really change.

      Now, about NKN and its very poor leadership – I have twice asked them on their FB page why they think cages are the way to house dogs and cats. My questions are polite and without angry rhetoric. They keep being deleted from that FB page. Almost 2 months ago I asked George Moris personally to help me get out the word that I needed someone with experience with Google’s Sketchup CAD program to finish off my model of an Adoption Center (pictures are better than words, right?). A small task for an incredibly valuable effort. I not only did not get his support but he couldn’t find time to even respond to my polite request.

      The agenda they have is to cheerlead for Nathan Winograd’s frilly little program that basically does little more than “polish the rotten apple” that is today’s shelter. To me with all my experience his 11-step program is NOTHING more than a scream to do more and do it better. Their response to any and everything is simply “Read the book!” or “You’re An Idiot!”

      Randy, your frustration is shared by many – dealing with NKN and Nathan’s bobbleheads is like trying to reason with the showmen of Fox News. Ain’t gonna happen.

      Heartstick, cages, animal control, dangerous dogs, “shelters” = these are all symptoms of antiquated beliefs that should have been left behind in the 1800s. Unfortunately, we suffer the stranglehold of an entire industry of people with careers based on this flawed approach. They will fiercely fight every effort to change this industry.

      We need a new model, not some warmed-up leftovers like a “no-kill” shelter. Heartsticking – a most grotesque example of the violence that is our society.

      1. I’m not sure if you figured my warning to Randy didn’t apply to you because it didn’t have your name on it but let me spell it out – Please EVERYONE stay on topic and don’t use my comment space to air your grievances with others. That’s troll-ish and will get you banned.

    3. As this BEGAN directed at me and my comments and then twisted into this – NKN crap attack…..

      Randy I get it that you obviously care about animals. I do too. That’s why I’ve dedicated the majority of my life helping animals – since a child at the age of 3 bringing in my first stray kitten. My parents can attest to all the animals that I saved…almost got thrown out because of it, in fact.

      You began with stating the HUGE amount of responsibility that Dr Piazno and, obviously, you think she’s doing a great job. I disagree…her shelter is still killing animals. Of all the hundreds I have saved – not one was killed, I never used a cent from anyone else to help with their care, and I did it all without the asssitance of 400 employees, which by the way that figure doesn’t appear to be very accurate – unless they hired an additional 300 employees in the past year they only have 111 employees – see here and scroll down to the second “article” http://petrescuemiami.blogspot.com/.

      I do my fair share of letter writing as well. And no, never once asked that ANYONE advocate for me – I do just fine on my own. I am so sick and tired of jumping on here to post – and trust me it hasn’t been that long since I started posting on YB’s blog – yet, each time I post I see at some point in the post where you slam NKN. You slam the NKN philosophy. I’m sorry but I am sick of seeing it…if this is how you are at each blog/FB site you post at it’s no wonder you get booted – off topic posts, slam people for not doing enough (even though you may not know them), you posts ridicule people for a movement that has shown major sucess. Obviously it isn’t in-line with your thoughts and beliefs – or you wouldn’t be so quick to smear it in the mud. I have seen HUGE success with NKN. Especially with them advocating that we shouldn’t kill healthy adoptable animals…seems you are supporting shelter killing to me by the way you post.

      Let me ask you this – have YOU ever seen heartstick performed? Have YOU ever had to be the one holding the animal down and reassured that this wouldn’t hurt the animal one bit – it would just be a quick pinch and fast death? That this option sure beats letting them starve to death or run wild in the streets? Now imagine being told that by an older, respected animal welfare person as a teenager just beginning to branch out in the welfare world. And then when speaking out against the method because I was THERE and saw the horrors – being asked to not come back and help any longer. Yep – they are desperate for help because they push away the people that truly care for animals because the person chooses to speak up FOR those same animals!

      You say that Dr Pizano used everything she had within her power – that this person is a union employee and is protected. I’m sorry but screw the union – we’re talking about tons of innocent animals (cats in this situation) being needlessly subjected to a horrendous death. AND it just makes me wonder how long this same person did the same thing time and time again – WITHOUT someone else reporting him/her!

      What does the AMVA have to say about Heartstick? Have you ever bothered to look? According to the AVMA “The term euthanasia is derived from the Greek terms eu meaning good and thanatos meaning death. A “good death” would be one that occurs with minimal pain and distress. In the context of these guidelines, euthanasia is the act of inducing humane death in an animal. It is our responsibility as veterinarians and human beings to ensure that if an animal’s life is to be taken, it is done with the highest degree of respect, and with an emphasis on making the death as painless and distress free as possible. Euthanasia techniques should result in rapid loss of consciousness followed by cardiac or respiratory arrest and the ultimate loss of brain function. In addition, the technique should minimize distress and anxiety experienced by the animal prior to loss of consciousness. The panel recognized that the absence of pain and distress cannot always be achieved. These guidelines attempt to balance the ideal of minimal pain and distress with the reality of the many environments in which euthanasia is performed. A veterinarian with appropriate training and expertise for the species involved should be consulted to ensure that proper procedures are used.”

      Given THAT information the case we’re discussing did NOT follow this protocal – there was nothing HUMANE – or a “good death” with minimal pain & distress in the form of a heart stick.

      Even within a union – people can be fired. The union can try and counter the firing – but given the circumstances surrounding what was done – they would be fighting an uphill battle on this one. I don’t give a rats butt what you think about NKN – but let me tell you this…heart stick is WRONG and allowing someone to perform it, to me at least, says that it is ok to allow people to force these poor defenseless animals to major suffering that can and SHOULD be avoided. For an agency that is supposed to be committed to ending suffering in animals this sounds VERY hypocritical.

      I am going to make a suggestion – why don’t you start up your OWN blog so that you can continue to rant & rave about how awful those of us who back NKN are – and any other topics YOU want instead of hijacking someone else’s blog and getting so far off the topic of what the blog entry is about? That way you can be followed by people who feel like you do and you can’t continue to complain about being blocked from so many places.

    4. FYI-George lives in Miami in an average west Miami home. I can assure you he is far from “rich”. We all have heard the rumor you started there-thank you, we did get a great laugh from it!
      Otherwise please get your facts straight before you spew your garbage. NKN’s “leaders” as you call us, do more than you know in our local city and county government as well as nationally, to include the usual letters, calls and meeting you are referring to and then some.
      You are clearly not in the loop living 700 miles away as you claim, but it doesn’t matter, NO ONE believes anything you say based on your false claims in this letter and several other media outlets & private e-mails to which I am always copied on. Your claims of selling NO KILL Nation franchises’ is beyond ridiculous. Do some research-you will find there are No Franchises, and we are a NON-FOR-PROFIT single entity.
      I will not waste any more time explaining to and defending our noble cause as you are clearly fabricating what you write. I will once again, ask to stop this non-sense. Several people have asked you as well. That is why you get “booted” from serious advocacy-based sites. You are a distraction who no on takes seriously.
      FYI-Randy, Were you at MDAS yesterday? Because I was, (NKN) we all were, again.

      Bye Bye Randy as this will be the last time you hear from me.

      Debi Day
      NO KILL Nation

  6. OH, I just love how people like to slam those not directly working in the “shelters”. There are numerous ways to help end the killing in our shelters without actually working IN one – and promoting the no kill message is a VERY important one. And don’t assume just because someone isn’t sending you a detailed outline of everything they do, don’t assume they’re not doing anything OR that what you’re doing is more important just because, you know, its what you’re doing.

  7. “Until we acknowledge that cages or private rooms are not the way to display SOCIAL animals, nothing will ever really change.” It is ridiculous to think the whole movements momentum is based on THIS premise. Sounds like sour apples that everyone has embraced NW sheltering method over yours. Perfect example of why we can’t move forward…its always more about EGO than the animals.

    1. That and I know a LOT of no kill shelters are cage free. They don’t have the fancy rooms this guys is advocating but they are free roaming in rooms and seem pretty happy to me.


  8. I don’t care how swiftly the shelter acted, yes, its very nice that they did, but that employee, regardless of union or otherwise, violated the AVMA code, and inflicted intentional suffering on those animals. He should not only be fired, but charged with intent to inflict suffering and harm on animals. Did he have a LICENSE to perform euthanasia???? If not, then he should also be charged with performing it without a license. We have to draw the line in the sand, and stand by it toe to line. No exceptions. Why is that person still employed there?????

      1. You can look up his name at the FL department of professional Licence Regulation (or something like that) I am sorry I don’t have their website info handy but a Google search will work. On the site you can input his name, to see if his license is current. You can also file a complaint, check for past complaints, etc.



  9. The first time I saw a CCTV of heartstick, I vomited. They are not sedating the animals beforehand – and I’ll tell you something, I was a vet tech for 10 years, I don’t think short of complete anesthetic induction, that ANY sedative could completely cover the pain of a needle sticking into your heart, lungs or other organs. Period. The AVMA (not a stand-out protection agency by any means, but all we’ve got for now) does NOT list it as an acceptable form of euth for very good reasons.

  10. I see Debi decided to crawl from under her rock now that I am prevented from answering her attack on me?

    It might be the last I hear from her – who cares – but it won’t last she hears from me.

  11. My heartfelt thanks go out to all working towards a NO KILL Nation this past year and moving forward into 2011. The Annual NO KILL Conference is July 30th and 31st in Washington, DC again this year. The NO KILL movement around the country has picked up substantially in the past year-this year we (the movement) are working on some very important issues that will sure to be discussed at the conference. If you are new to the movement, this conference is for you. The 2 days of informative workshops are led by some of the nation’s experts in their field. This is the chance to learn what you need to become active in your community. Go to http://www.nokillconference.org for more information such as tickets, workshops and schedules. I hope to see you there!
    Debi Day
    NO KILL Nation

  12. Okay, reader be warned, this is graphic….
    I saw a heartstick happen during one of our so-called “community” spay-neuter clinics. A female cat was brought to the clinic, obviously VERY pregnant but the owner INSISTED on having her spayed. The vet cut her belly open & pulled out the uterus and handed it to the shelter’s lead vet tech. she set it on the table, grabbed a syringe of fatal-plus and injected each unborn kitten. These were FULL-TERM, MOVING KITTENS! They could have been saved & bottle-fed or maybe even reunited with Mom. Instead they were killed & thrown in the trash. That was the LAST spay-neuter clinic I ever volunteered for at the shelter. I sooo wanted to punch that “Lead” vet-tech….That’s some leadership you’ve got there sistah!

    1. Fix Charlotte,

      I saw this same thing in a vet clinic where I worked many years ago, except with puppies. It left a scar.

      To my mind, advocating for no kill includes a responsibility to protect the unborn. Pregnant dogs and cats can not decline or consent to medical procedures so it is up to us to speak for them. And IMO we must err on the side of saving lives. In a rare case where a vet determines that it would endanger the life of the dam/queen to continue w/the pregnancy, I think it’s reasonable to follow the vet’s advice in order to protect the life of the female. And of course in some cases, the owner honestly doesn’t know (and neither does the vet) that the female is pregnant. But when it is known, and the female is healthy enough to carry the litter to term, I feel it’s against the premise of no kill to perform a spay.

      1. YB;

        I totally agree. This was a healthy female cat with an ignorant owner (I don’t understand how she got pregnant!) Uh-huh…
        If I only could have saved those babies, if I had only gotten angrier, If only….

      2. I don’t agree with heartsticking unborn pups. but I also don’t agree completely with allowing every pregnant female animal whelp. I’ve been involved in rescue for quite a few years, and we’ve done “emergency” spay clinics where a good percentage of the animals are pregnant. In one “rescue” event, more than 30 pups were aborted rather than being added to our community…I personally fostered two families and raised ten pups from this event. I still think about those dogs—both the fostered and the adopted, and the aborted. They adopted dogs I can track, but the others never even had a chance. However, our all volunteer crew were already swamped with both puppies and adults from this same kennel, and I truly think that aborting those litters (in various stages of growth) was the right thing to do.

      3. I am torn on the spay/abort issue. On the one hand I feel like they should be given a chance. On the other hand at certain points of the year every intact female at a feral colony will be pregnant and letting them all have their kittens presents a few logistical issues. Do you release the moms and hope you can catch them and all the kittens before they get pregnant again? Do you keep the moms until the kittens are weaned – and then can you ethically release the moms after they have been cared for for months? Can you find homes for all those kittens? Can you afford to care for them all until they get homes?

        It’s a hard decision, but right now I can’t blame any caregiver who decides to spay/abort – although I do hope one day most of those issues won’t be issues because community support will step in and help.


  13. Step #1 is getting a new shelter. Everything else can follow after that ie: NO KILL. I also know for a fact that there are some very caring people who work & volunteer at MDAS. In these economic times most people have to choose between what they think is right & feeding their family. God Bless those poor people that watch dogs & cats they have to take care of on a daily basis die because people are irresponsible & don’t microchip, spay or neuter their pets. The community needs to be educated on the importance of those things. A sign at the exit for the shelter would be nice too. I was at an adoption event in Miami and there were many people that didn’t even know the shelter existed. So please let’s stay focused on the most important thing. The animals & being Humane. The facility that they are subjected to is Inhumane. United we Stand, divide we FALL! We can fight this fight TOGETHER!

    1. You said: “Step #1 is getting a new shelter.”

      I disagree. Step #1 is to STOP the killing! The public (and the elected officials who are supposed to be serving them) do not want to fund death. Way too many animal holding facilities have used the excuse that they don’t have enough money or enough space or the “right” equipment to save lives. It’s bullshit!
      All it takes to save lives is to STOP KILLING. Which came first: the chicken or the egg? Well, if you didn’t have a chicken, you wouldn’t have eggs, but where did that first chicken come from? If we spayed every chicken, we’d have no eggs…right? Sorry, off topic.
      Anyway, “The Public” loves their animals and will go way above and beyond to support and cherish them. People who get paid to work in holding facilities? Not so much. And though they may say it’s because they don’t have enough space, or money or volunteers or supplies, it’s mostly because they choose to kill rather than do that above and beyond support to SAVE EVERY ANIMAL.

      1. Without a new facility how can you have “No Kill?” Where will they be housed? I am not against “No Kill” I just feel the first step is educating the community ie: spay/neuter/microchipping your pet and providing a Humane Shelter. Mandatory The above three should be mandatory. Yes the public loves their animals. However, most people in the community don’t understand the reason to spay/neuter their beloved pets. It’s stops the over population and for females it is much healthier. Breeding should be stopped until the population is under control. Backyard breeders should be found & shut down. I am not commenting to debate any of the issues people are talking about. I am here for the dogs at the shelter & the sick ones I am fostering.

  14. One other thing that is needed. A crematorium at the new shelter facility so these dogs don’t wind up in a landfill with our everyday trash!

    1. A lot of animals from shelters are frozen and then taken to meat rendering plants where they are boiled up into a lovely big soup, the products of which end up in such diverse consumer goods as make-up and, yes, pet food.

  15. @ LynnO: As for save every animal – in a perfect world, I agree. But in that utopian world where this would happen, how many dogs and cats of differing temperaments etc. would YOU take in? Would you take in every single unaborted pup and kitten? Even with all the people in rescue, there wouldn’t be enough homes to go around. We have to start where the problem starts: BREEDING FOR PROFIT. It’s GOT to GO.

  16. Still nobody will touch the breeding for profit issue. If we could fix THAT, we wouldn’t need to have the NKN discussion, or at the worst, we could have the “new model” shelters and they wouldn’t be overrun. This means, btw, taking cats OFF the persona-non-gratia list as they seem to be in almost every issue pertaining to their sentience and rights. So. That’s my two cents for today.

    1. Morgana,
      I’ve mentioned many times on this blog my position regarding breeding: I’m for it, provided it’s done responsibly. I don’t care if the breeder ends up making a profit or losing money on any particular litter because a responsible breeder puts any profit back into her stock.

      Here is one of my posts on the subject that was transferred from the old blog (so no comments were transferred with it):

      1. Thanks! I am for breeding to better the breed, but unfortunately, too many idiots make this claim and there is no oversight.

  17. Morgana,

    You won’t get your question answered if it’s not in the “book”.

    My questions weren’t much harder. I asked which of the No Kill Equaation’s programs weren’t being implemented at MDAS an if Dr Pizano was removed who would run the shelter in her place?

    If you can’t answer those question then what’s the vision?

  18. Randy, I’m sorry, but I am not following you…can you enlighten me? Is it the NKN “book”? And as for the questions you asked, what ‘vision’ are we talking about?

  19. Morgana,

    I’m not sure I’m allowed to talk on this blog or if I was it would be a filtered conversation. I am talking about “Redemption”.

    Thge question is straight-forward “which of the ten points of the No Kill Equation aren’t being implemented at MDAS.

    Anybody can answer this question by simply pulling out “the book” (page 199) and comparing those ten programs with what is already on the MDAS web site.

    Now that I’ve given people the hints, anyone smarter then aa fifth grader can look up and answer that question.

    Once you answer that question you can move on to exploring the movements “vision” to see if that is a course worth taking.

    I don’t think it is – I do think there are many other solutions available for those who truly do advocate for the animals at MDAS now and in the future. You don’t reach that point by snuffing out criticism and telling those same advocates who are already deeply “in the trenches” of these battles to “shut up”

    1. Randy,
      This allegation:
      “I’m not sure I’m allowed to talk on this blog or if I was it would be a filtered conversation.”
      is not based in reality. Just because I gave you a warning to stay on topic and not attempt to hijack threads in order to bash other websites, that doesn’t give you any basis for the above statement.

      I’m growing tired of this sort of thing. You’re not adding anything to the conversation. You’re detracting from it.

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