Pets Alive in NY has offered to take the feral dog currently at MAS. Huzzah!
Brainstorming session – everyone pitch in your suggestions and thoughts. As they say, there are no bad ideas! What we need in order to save this dog:
1. Advice on how we get a feral dog from MAS to a boarding facility. We need specifics here please on getting this dog from her cage at MAS to a vehicle and from the vehicle to the kennel at the boarding facility. Huge plus if someone with experience can physically assist. Sedation, special equipment… what’s appropriate?
2. Transportation from Memphis, TN to Middletown, NY. All options are on the table at this point – official transport services, individual volunteers, etc. The key is getting her moved quickly.
3. This is not a brainstorming item but I’m adding it because I know people will ask. If you want to donate specifically to assist in boarding and transport costs, please visit our regular ChipIn. Meows and BowWows will be helping us with the dog in Memphis. If you wish to donate to her care after she gets to Pets Alive, their website has donation info.
Also, I’m sure I don’t say this enough but all you guys are awesome and I love you.
Added: Bringing up from the comments so everyone can read this good info:
Hi, everyone — this is Steve from Olympic Animal Sanctuary. Very quickly, so you don’t have to spend time looking me up, I’m one of a handful of people in the entire country that specializes in feral dog rehab. I’m going to explain the situation as plainly as I can, and I hope that one of you in Memphis will step up and do what needs to be done for this dog, because if you don’t, she’s dead in a few hours.
What needs to happen is this: one of you needs to go to the shelter with a crate, have shelter staff put the dog into the crate, put the crate in your vehicle, and take it to a safe location, like your garage or bathroom. That will save her life, and buy us some time to work out placement. The rescue options we have for her are not in Memphis, and we simply cannot mobilize anyone quickly enough to get her out in time. One of you has to do it.
I understand that you may be concerned for your safety and the dog’s well-being. Your concerns are valid, and I am happy to personally guide you through this process if you’re willing to step up. This is actually mush easier than you might think. Here are some basics:
Line the crate with straw or shavings, because the dog is going to be urinating and defecating in the crate. No bathroom breaks. No walks. You will not take the dog out of the crate.
You will feel that you need to provide food and water to the dog, but she will not eat or drink until she feels safe, and that won’t happen in the first twelve hours. She will only spill the food and water all over the crate. If we are not able to coordinate transport for her within twelve hours, I will personally guide you through providing water for her.
You may, if you wish, thread plastic zip ties through the door of the crate to secure it shut. In most cases these dogs do not attempt to escape, they simply hunker down in the back of the crate and are completely silent and still.
These dogs do not bite except in defense, and they have to generally be pushed very hard to elicit a bite. They do not come forward — their primary defense is to run away, and it is only when that is impossible and you attempt to handle them that they bite. the bites are not serious in most cases — they are simply trying to create an opportunity to run by making you back away. This should not be an issue because you WILL NOT be handling the dog.
When you move the crate, you will be able to carry it, with two people, without sticking your fingers where they can be bitten.
You will have as little interaction with the dog as possible — simply get her out and leave her alone. Very easy. Anything more is going to stress her out and will be a waste of time. I am networking with other feral dog specialists right now and believe we can have her placed very quickly, but I need one of you to buy me the time I need to arrange transportation. I will walk you through every step and be on the phone with you as much as you need, so please, someone in Memphis, the time for blogging, Facebook sharing, praying, and crossing fingers is over for this dog — we have a very clear, step-by-step solution, and I just need one of you to commit to getting her out of the shelter so we can take those steps. If you will be the one to save this dog, reply here as soon as possible with your contact info. I will continue to check it throughout the day, as will Shirley.
Thanks.
My suggestion is that we move her in thirds or quarters – if possible. The less amount of times we have to move her from vehicles the better. I don’t know how long sedation will last and I’m sure she won’t want to be messed with a whole lot. Potty breaks are out of question for her (I think) so time is of the essence. I believe a straight shot with no layovers. Volunteers out of Memphis will have to leave very early and I believe NY will be in the late evening hours.
I also propose another route depending on volunteers- up through KY, through West Virginia and into Maryland. I can help with that route for sure. Someone from Pets Alive will have to meet the final driver after hours.
My experience with official transporters is they plan the routes out at least a week in advance. I don’t know if we will find one that isn’t already booked. Just my opinion, but we can pray for a miracle.
I’ve said it before, I love you too.
I have no expertese in moving dogs but I could move raccoons & opossoms for ya’. It only takes a carrier. MAS will get her into one I’m sure. Who is going that direction?
i dont understand by seeing the footage of animal cruelty at the shelter, that they didnt fire those people. it takes animal lover to do the job. from what i see they not. it is sad to treat the poor dog that way. just makes me sick.
Sedation medicene can be offered in food. If it is in pill form break it up and hide it inside cooked chicken she should wolf it down. If she could be flown it would be easier and less stressful. That is the aim to make things less traumatic and to try and make it a pleasant experience for her. Good luck.
On The Road Again yahoo group can help coordinate the transport : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OnTheRoadAgain/
I’m not a verified member yet but if you email/request to join the two owners can help set up a transport.
Also, wasn’t there a transport group mentioned recently that flew from TN into NY with a dog? I seem to remember reading that somewhere. I’ll see if I can find their contact info.
Pilots n Paws. I’ll contact Pets Alive to ask if they can look into that. I believe you have to be a 501c3 to make the request.
I don’t have much experience with feral dogs but I do have an indoor feral. I needed to sedate her to get her to her vet appointment and the pill I gave her did not work. Apparently if they are anxious enough their adrenaline rush can overcome the effects of the sedative. SO we need an expert who will know how much to give her to ensure she goes to sleep but not too much so she doesn’t wake up. I volunteer at pets alive and am willing to do a leg of transport, but I have no experience with aggressive dogs and she will need to be crated and possibly muzzled. I know that isn’t going to be a good experience for her but considering how many people she will most likely be interacting with safety is more important then comfort.
Anyone who puts a basket muzzle on the dog has to be able to get it back off. IDK if the dog will be in the same state when taking it off as she was when putting it on. Something to consider.
My main worry is that the dog will try to bite through the carrier as we move it from car to car – a muzzle would be able to prevent that. Pets Alive might be able to sedate her again once she is there so they can handle her to get a leash on her and get her to her quarantine area.We should ask them if a muzzle would be a good or bad idea. A blanket over the carrier is also a good idea.
The last dog I transported did try to bite through the slats of the carrier to get out – but since that was while we were driving I wasn’t worried so much about him getting out as him hurting himself. But here I would be worried she would do the same thing but while hands are on the carrier.
I have e-mailed Kerry to ask for advice on this issue. I’m hoping we’ll get some others weighing in as well.
The only sedation to keep her “down” would probably have to be administered by a vet and the dog monitored. Not sure how long you can keep a dog “down” on these sedatives. Renting a van big enough to hold a strong crate and driving her straight through with two drivers would be the easiest on the dog. I have transported wolves and this is usually the best option. Several wolves have been moved from Oklahoma east in this manner. Moving a crate from vehicle to vehicle is dangerous to those moving and the animal if people don’t know what they are doing, and very stressful to a dog this feral. A dog this scared can easily break out of a traditional crate. Heavy crates that are put together with pins in the corners are usually used that are a much heavier welded steel than the regular crate sold. This looks like a sizable dog from the photos so something sturdy would be required.
The only information on line I have been finding on transporting feral / fear aggressive dogs is the same as what Daniela says. Also suggested was wearing thick leather gloves. They can always be handed off to the next volunteer.
You don’t have to stick your hands on the cage during transport if the cage has handles. If not, you could easily make a handle by running a rope through on either end or some other rube goldberg type thing.
That depends on how heavy the dog is. I know for my cats I can carry via the handle and it isn’t a problem – but they are 16 pounds max. If the dog is heavier you would want to lift from the bottom. I guess if you have one person on each end then should be able to hold it in such a way that noone is actually standing on the door side and then lift it into/out of the car that way. Making sure the door side is covered so she can’t see might help too. The least amount of people doing the trip is best. For my transport I drove 4 hours there and 4 hours back – as long as it is on a weekend I can do the same here if needed.
According to mapquest this is a 17 hour journey but I don’t think an overnight is a good idea. It’s mostly highway driving too.
Thank you Daniela for your generous offer. 8 hours is a long time on the road. We’ll see how things develop.
I wonder if a “crate in a crate” system would make moving her safer? Just to give the handlers something to hold on to that isn’t in direct contact with the dog. Or putting a heavy blanket under the crate and lifting the blanket like a stretcher.
I do suggest LOTS of zipties on crate parts to make sure that they stay together.
Then again, she may be like a feral cat where if you cover the carrier, she calms down and is quiet.
She’s been through so much mishandling already though, she may not react in any “feral normal” way…
A crate in a crate is actually scarier and less comfortable (it jostles more when you pick it up.) I venture once she’s crated she’ll settle down. Two people need to be picking up the crate. The only way I can transport my feral is to walk her on a leash and ask her to go into the crate (she bolts in when a person stands/walks behind her) and then it takes two of us to pick up the crate and place it in the vehicle gently. She comes out of the crate on a leash and will easily jump down out of the vehicle. She doesn’t trust people behind her, and she hates to be handled physically, so I can’t pick her up myself.
Putting the crate on a stretcher or blanket might work, but stability is important. The goal is to be as smooth as possible. Hands-on with two people does that best.
I second the vote for covering the crate, but not so much as to restrict airflow. An airline kennel rather than a wire crate for sure!
For the covering of the crate all you do is drape a blanket over the crate so that all holes in the carrier are covered. It doesn’t restrict airflow it just restricts what they can see.
Good advice from Sarah S. This dog will be a bite risk and a flight risk. Well-meaning vols should not attempt to take her out of the crate for a “potty break” in transit. In fact, OTRA won’t touch this transport because the dog has a history of aggression. Also, it’s dangerous to muzzle a dog during a long transport–they can choke to death in their own vomit. And, yes, they do get carsick sometimes. Best bet is to find 2 or 3 reliable people who can drive her to NY in a van–non-stop. When she gets to the rescue, she needs to be released from the crate in a secure, contained area. BTW, the rescue is usually responsible for making transport arrangements. Pilots n Paws might be a good choice if they can cover the distance.
I second Sarah S. Since she’s moved wolves before in this manner she certainly knows the way the dog can best be moved with the least amount of trauma to her, the least amount of stress to the people moving her and the fastest safest way to get her to her new home.
I went to bed last night in utter despair wondering if this dog would survive MAS to wake this morning and find plans being made for her. I couldn’t be happier. A pat on the back to all involved!
Jeanne – Kerry advised that Pets Alive’s policy is that they do not arrange transport. Since Pilots n Paws appears to have a 501c3 requirement for transport requests, that option is now out. But we are continuing to explore all other possible options.
Can the rescue helping in Memphis make the request?
Ona from Meows & BowWows tried but the pilot said it was too risky and recommended we find ground transport.
What about the health certificate? is there a vet lined up to issue that for her? Also- i believe animals are required to have rabies vaccinations when crossing state lines…
We are working on getting the health certificate. We were told she was vax’d at MAS. If that information turns out to be wrong, we’ll get that done.
IS SHE SPAYED!? If she is, why did they bother catching her, if she’s not, get it done, and start transporting her ASAP. She’ll wake up on the way to NY and if Pets Alive really knows what they are doing they’ll be able to handle her safely/kindly when she gets there.
I have a rehabbed several feral and semi-feral dogs. The two I have right now enjoy each other immensely. The one has reverted back to a very domesticated fellow (he wasn’t all that feral, just scared because he was hurt and now that he’s healed he’s a very happy and personable guy), the female is better than she was, but she doesn’t trust strangers and she’s very difficult for even me to handle. (I’ve had her for three years now I think.) She had people trying to kill her for months and is quite justified in her attitudes!
The spaying or neutering of a feral animal is your big chance to make a difference and create a bond of trust. Some airlines don’t allow animals to be drugged in transport.
I just keep thinking about all those *other* dogs that MAS hauls off to the kill room each and every day. How easy would it be to find homes for them…WHY don’t they even try?
Has anyone thought of contacting Jack Hannah’s group. He has a lot of people with the experience with wild animals, and in lite of the recent killings of the exotic animals.. this story might entice them if brought to their attention in just the right way.. got to jerk on their heart strings. Can some-one well spoken try? Just a thought.
You could put a post on Craigslist in the Rideshare section.
You may want to ask Steve @ Olympic if he has any advise. He looks like me has done this in the past.
If you are talking about Olympic Animal Sanctuary, I e-mailed them basic info about the dog (breed, location, feral status, we’re trying to help her, etc) along with a couple of links to the blog if they wanted more info/pix. Someone named Pati replied they don’t have time to click links, just give them basic info. Which I already had done. Maybe they don’t have time to read basic info either, IDK.
Status report: We are still trying to line up a place to board her. Per Mr. Andrews, if we don’t get something firm by end of day, MAS will kill the dog. I don’t need to remind any of you that I only learned YESTERDAY MORNING that this dog is feral but apparently that doesn’t concern Mr. Andrews and his MAS pals.
Ideally you wouldn’t need to board – you would just start the first leg of the transport straight from MAS. But I am assuming that is impossible! Can someone chop the trip into legs so we can get volunteers. I am not familiar with the the route so don’t know good stopping points. The best would be to get one person to do the entire thing but I doubt we will get that. The legs are going to need to be bigger then usual too – we want to limit the amount of times she needs to be transferred.
I think we need volunteers who are ok with transporting a feral dog and able to put in a lot of miles. It limits the pool significantly I’m sure. But we have money to cover gas, tolls, Happy Meals, whatever is required! It’s just ridiculous trying to scramble like this with such a short amount of time. But that’s what kill shelters like MAS love to do – keep advocates in crisis mode so they don’t have time or energy to complain about the killing.
I drive a beetle but have transported 16 cats on one transport and 3 cats and a medium sized dog on another so as long as the carrier can fit in (and unless this dog is great dane size it should) I am willing to be the last person on the trip. I am also willing to drive a chuck – I just looked at mapquest and Hagerstown, West Virginia is about how far i am willing to drive down. That is still about 14 hours of driving left.
Hi there. Steve replied on your post that he would give you his private home number to call him but did not want to post it on the blog. He wrote me on Olympic’s FB that the best way to reach him with re this is the emergency line. He appears willing to help.
Alright, I’ll scroll back through and find it. I thought Steve was the name of the guy from a diff place. IDK. The past 2 days are a jumble to me right now, ha.
For ease, their emergency line is 360-320-OLYMPIC (6596). He seems to have read all your posts, so he should know who you are when you leave a message. Good luck. I’m new to your blog and to his website, so please forgive me if I’m not getting the critical detailed information to you/him as others might already know how to do.
TY. I left a phone message and e-mailed him directly with my phone number in case he picks up either in time.
I called the emergency number at Olympic Animal Sanctuary and left a message. I briefly (I hope) updated them on the situation, and explained the two most urgent needs as I understand them: how to remove the dog safely from MAS today (I explained she would be killed if not removed today) and where to place her temporarily while transport is being lined up for her to go to Pets Alive. I asked that Steve come on the thread with advice. I also gave them your email address, Shirley, in hopes that you could exchange phone numbers off the blog.
My message to OAS was redundant. I hope Steve gets back to you.
That’s ok. I think it’s good to have a backup, in case the lady erases one by mistake or something.
Possible legs for the trip would be Memphis up to Tammy in KY, then Tammy takes her possibly to Daniela who takes her to Pets Alive?
Tricky situation but I would try to find a vet to board her in the general area. They have the most experience with fear aggression. Don’t think a regular boarding kennel is going to take her. Can the local humane society (the no kill one) offer any temp help or temp shelter?
They have offered to help with vetting but said they are sorry they have no space for her.
Who is their vet? Maybe they could board her at their vet clinic.
Shirley, do you have a potential list of volunteers to drive? I’d be more then happy to set up the route. 3-4 volunteers is all we will need for 4-6 hours each way. If someone can pull tomorrow morning (if I can get Glenn to give us until they open)then I agree we should start the journey from MAS, to the vet and then right on the road. That eliminates boarding.
Also, I think we should do the following:
– put those strong ties on the cage just in case
– have pole available to slide through the cage so that we can lift her. When one driver meets up with the next that will = the two drivers needed to move her. I think that eliminates the need for a muzzle.
– have puppy pads in the cage for urinating, etc., and use the tool that allows her to be moved to the back of the cage so we can clean as needed.
– see if the vet will prescribe a sedative like in the e-mail I sent to you with the recommendations from A.M.
I am going to be upfront and say I am not willing to clean up the cage during travel. Having her in the back of the car while I drive is fine, Lifting up the cage from one car to another is fine. But I am not reaching anywhere into that cage – even with a tool to keep her in the back of the cage. Sitting in her own mess for hours isn’t pleasant – but it also won’t kill her. I think doing anything to “handle” her should be left to experts and I definitely am not one of them! Limiting her food and water should help with those issues.
I certainly understand that.
I’m hoping too she won’t do much but sit there and allow us to drive her. I’m okay with not cleaning the cage as well – to be honest. But, if this tool segregates her where she can’t get to me and hurt me and there’s one hell of a mess I think I just might give it a try. I don’t know what is worse – driving that far with a smell in the car or the fear of her. :-)
I agree.. compared to being terrorized with a water hose at the shelter. I think she will be just fine covered up and kept quite, I wouldn’t fool with her.. just giving her water till she arrives.
My last foster was on transport for 12 hours with no food.. it didn’t hurt her.. to tell the truth . it helped.. She didn’t get car sick.. she didn’t have enough in her to need to poop. Just my opinion
I feel the food/water issue is like when you have to prepare an animal for surgery. You take the food away at 9pm and sometimes they don’t end up eating until the afternoon/evening of the next day. It’s not their favorite experience in the world but it doesn’t hurt them either. Removing them will cut down on the need for her to go to the bathroom – and since we can’t walk her that would be for the best. She will get to stretch her legs and eat when she gets to Pets Alive where they know how to help her safely.
I just wanted to give my limits so that if that means you prefer I don’t drive then you have time to find someone else. I think the best would be to sedate her for the moving – that way she can be placed in the carrier and it can be securely tied together and she can wake during the first leg and hopefully just lie there. Considering that she was lying there when they were dragging her around she might be pretty passive as long as we stay away from her.
I talked with Steve – a feral dog handler from Olympic Animal Sanctuary. he says no food or water – she won’t eat or drink it anyway. I hope everyone reads his full comment here: http://yesbiscuit.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/talk-me-down/comment-page-1/#comment-21986
Can’t do anything but send a little money and lots of prayers. Why is MAS in such a hurry to kill her now that there are people working on getting her to a safe place?
That place makes me sick to my stomach.
Could an order be filed to keep her on hold status so that MAS doesn’t kill her? At this point it would be out of spite if after all these days they killed her now.
Is there someone in Memphis who will go pull this dog today? It sounds like it won’t involve handling her in any way – just getting her to a safe place. Please read the link that Steve posted.
So many people are pulling for her – she deserves so much better than she’s gotten.
Someone, please?
Based on Steve’s post she should be an easy transport – just like a feral cat. She will stay away from you as long as you don’t try to interact with her. Is she still going to Pets Alive? From his post it sounds like he is trying to get her to one of his feral contacts.
I’m more concerned that MAS will kill her before someone can pull her outta there. Any word?
Holding my breath and saying lots of prayers.
I’m hoping that someone at Meows and BowWows is able to pull her. I’m sure Shirley will let us know as soon as she has any info…
I just sent message via fb to Scott Kramer asking him as a lawyer who cares for animals to stop MAS from killing the ferel dog today.
Well, that worked….NOT……he deleted me.
I am so afraid she won’t be saved from that place.
Just able to send prayers for this poor dog. Please MAS don’t kill him!
Well Arlene, I guess he wouldn’t have worked as a shelter director either.
You have that right! Guess he just wanted a plumb job and salary.
Worse yet, he passed himself off as No-Kill Shelter believer! How bad do you think he wanted that job!
Apparently he didn’t want it bad enough to help, huh? He’s as bad as Mayor Wharton since he blocked you from his page. Even though I don’t live in Memphis he won’t be getting my support – not that it matters. I am so tired and so depressed over all this nonsense. However, I am very, very thankful I do not live in Memphis. Prayers to all the animals at MAS. May God hold you and protect you through the night and forever more.
Has anyone checked out this site: Feral Dog Blog – http://feraldog.wordpress.com/
COMPASSIONATE DOG HANDLING COURSE IN MY HOME TOWN – BOZEMAN MT, OCT 15-16, 2011. – http://feraldog.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/compassionate-dog-handling-course-in-my-home-town-bozeman-mt-oct-15-16-2011/
Maybe the man that writes for this blog can give some advice.
I’ve seen video on him. He uses a Y pole.
I have a few ideas which may be helpful.
I agree with the suggestion to simply use a crate (Vari-kennel) since the dog is already contained. If it is in a kennel you can use the Y pole in a calm manner to move the dog into the transport crate. As was noted, use a lot of plastic ties to assemble the crate and secure the door – and be sure every transporter has a knife in case it must be opened. I have helped transport wolves in Vari-kennels and they do just fine as long as their is a person close by which quiets the wolf (dog) enough so it is not vigorously biting the crate.
I respectfully suggest that is is NOT a good idea to put a muzzle on the dog and there is no need to wear heavy gloves. Sedation should only be necessary if the dog is very high energy and not intimidated by people. If it is intimidated, then people near the transport crate will keep it from chewing.
Remember to cover the crate with a cloth to reduce stress while allowing cooling and ventilation.
I will post a video on YouTube GWRFeralDog Channel on moving a dog (a biting dog) into a transport crate with the Y pole.
There was mention of needing to clean the crate. There is a great method to transfer a dog from one crate to another using Tru Catch 48F Folding Dog trap, although the trap is very expensive (Heart of the Earth Animal Equip). There is a way to put crates on either end of the trap, then open the doors and have the dog walk through the trap into the other crate. A Y pole can be calmly used to move the dog through the trap and into the clean transport crate.
The video footage for this is available in the new Box Trapping Training Video my organization has just produced. It is for sale at our GWR Products webpage – http://www.wildliferesources.org.
Respectfully,
Dr. Mark
Global Wildlife Resources, Feral Dog Blog
Thank you Dr. Mark for all your suggestion for handling this feral dog!
Yes, all suggestions much appreciated!
I’ve been catching up on blogs and reading this just made me cry. Thank you so so so much Shirley and to everyone else involved in saving this little girl. Please keep us posted. <3